Posted on 11/18/2011 6:13:09 AM PST by Alex Murphy
Next Thursday, as the rest of us tuck into our turkey feasts, hundreds of needy families in Southern California will open "Boxes of Love." Delivered by several churches led by Pacific Crossroads in Santa Monica, Calif., the boxes contain ingredients for a Thanksgiving meal for six. They allow impoverished families to skip food lines and neighborhood pantries and enjoy the holiday in their own homes.
What's unusual about the Pacific Crossroads congregation—and what underpins efforts such as Boxes of Love—is its theologically conservative raison d'être. A member church of the Presbyterian Church in America, Pacific Crossroads is committed to Reformation doctrines such as total depravity (every person is born sinful) and limited atonement (salvation is available only to the elect). These beliefs are typically regarded as ugly and inhumane by American culturati. Yet the church's pastor, Rankin Wilbourne, is happy to pepper his sermons with references to Bono and "Jersey Shore," and the church has grown to around 1,500 members from 500 in three years.
[SNIP]
And so in a city more often associated with Calvin Klein, John Calvin's teachings provide a basis for hope. In his commentary on II Corinthians 8, the 16th-century Swiss theologian connected Christians' assurance of salvation with their freedom to give to the poor:
"What makes us more close-handed than we ought to be is when we look too carefully, and too far forward, in contemplating the dangers that may occur—when we are excessively cautious and careful—when we calculate too narrowly what we will require during our whole life, or, in fine, how much we lose when the smallest portion is taken away. The man that depends upon the blessing of the Lord has his mind set free from these trammels and has, at the same time, his hands opened for beneficence."
(Excerpt) Read more at online.wsj.com ...
Which category has your name on it?
Many of us are convinced that he used him as a model. Certainly he used the founder of Islam as a model.
We WILL BE PERFECTED!!!! Just as Jesus commands!
This is a process, which we are undergoing, and Jesus is the author and perfector of our faith.
WHEN will we be perfected? the 100% mark occurs at OUR DEATH, or assumption (whichever comes first). Short of this we are all fallible.
Now you tell me, are YOU PERFECT? Have you ever made it through a day, week, month? Does Jesus grade on a curve?
Of course any Christian wishes to be perfect, we just cannot do it completely in this life. Not ONE of us.
Now tell me -— are you perfect? If not, do you not believe the scripture? or are you just tilting at windmills?
Arggghhhhh.
My cutting and editing went awry. I did not mean that Wahhab was a model for Calvin, rather that Mohammed, the founder of Islam was....
Nice to see the Pope also damned to hell all Jews.
Very convenient for the persecutions to come.
I guess the pope single-handedly cancelled God's convent with Israel.
Calvinism and cheer; now that’s an oxymoron.
Bible bingo is a fruitless effort because it’s your interpretation versus mine, and I’m not interested.
In the end, you believe in your interpretation of the Bible.
I’d suggest you study the Catholic perspective directly from Catholic theologians and scriptural commentaries rather than Protestant polemics that misrepresent Catholic teaching.
I dont want to study Catholic teaching.
I want to study the bible.
I am not a Catholic, a Protestant, a Calvinist, a anything other than a CHRISTIAN.
Reminds me of the African-American sort of classification— Dammit, you should be an AMERICAN, not a flavor.
You seem to want to be in a Protestant vs Catholic war. I could not care less about that debate. What concerns me is anybody going away from the bible teaching (like Calvinist, the subject of this thread).
You took it as a stage to base ANYBODY not in the Catholic church.
In the eternal perspective, GOD’s Church is the only one that matters. I think events have proven no brick and mortar church speaks for God. I am sure you disagree - that the Catholic church is “it”. If so, that’s a sad commentary on God, because the Catholic church has not been a good example for 2000 years (neither have ANY brick and mortar, earthly churches)
The Catholic Church is not a denomination. It is the Church that St. Paul writes about.
If you don’t wish to study Catholic teaching or scriptural interpretation then don’t present yourself as an authority on Catholic doctrine.
Being Catholic is not a flavor. Catholicism is the fullness of Christianity.
I was surrounding with all sorts of anti-Catholic arguments such as yours throughout my growing up years, but the more I investigated them, the more I found they were just legends.
Catholicism is generic Christianity. Do you think the gates of hell prevailed against the Church after Jesus ascended into heaven?
I find it rather peculiar that the ancient Churches of the East that have been in schism with the Catholic Church for 1,000-1,600 years agree with the Catholic Church on most of the points where Protestants disagree.
Yet they reject papal bulls and the like and consider Sola Scriptura heretical.
The Church that St. Paul writes about is the Church the Body of Christ. That is being formed in the heavenlies, not on this earth. It's blessings and focus is the heavenlies, where we are seated with Christ, in Him, and He in us. We are to focus on things there, not here on earth.
The Catholic Church exemplifies "TIme Past" and "Ages to Come" beautifully. The only problem with that is that the Catholic Church isn't Israel. Israel is Israel.
While attempting to live in "Time Past" and the "Ages to Come", "But NOW" is being completely set aside and ignored for the most part. That is where the gospel of your salvation is to be found. "But Now" is where the free gift of salvation by grace through faith is given to us by God. And reconciliation of God and man is given purely based on the finished work of Christ.
Catholicism is not the fullness of Christianity. It is the usurping of another's covenants, promises, and prophecies for itself.
I am glad you have faith in the Catholic Church. I do not portray myself as an expert in any denomination.
I hope you enjoy where you are at, and grow there. I do NOT believe there is a single earthly church that has the “patent” on Salvation.
As to where I place my trust, I would rather place my faith in the Christ Jesus, and not any denomination.
I am a follower of Christ, not Paul. Here’s what Paul said about “followers”
1 Cor 3:4
For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?
5Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man? 6I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase. 7So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase. 8Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour. 9For we are labourers together with God: ye are God’s husbandry, ye are God’s building.
so according to Paul, Pauline succession is nothing. You will get rewarded by your labours. Reward is not salvation, those are different topics....
Then don’t judge what you don’t understand.
At least I have a grasp on what Protestants believe because I was one. Protestant characterizations of Catholic beliefs don’t even scratch the surface.
2 Peter 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
Nice work of fiction. Typical. Dispensationalism is a 19th century innovation that even a lot of conservative Protestants have a problem with.
The Catholic Church is evil, so I have to close my eyes and ears to what it says.
The Gnostics thought much the same.
Have you ever considered becoming Jewish?
No. I’m a member of the Church the Body of Christ. Where “There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female; for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.” Gal.3:28.
So aren’t you suggesting that the Body of Christ is a phantasm by denying that it is one and visible?
St. Cyprian of Carthage and the early fathers of the Church attested that the followers of heretical sects such as the Gnostics and Novatianists were outside of the Body of Christ.
Perhaps you participate in the Body of Christ by virtue of your baptism in some imperfect way.
Protestants are outside of the Church.
Fortunately for me St. Cyprian of Carthage nor the early fathers of the Church died for my sins, were buried, and rose again the third day. Nor or they forming the Body of Christ. Nor have they blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ. Fortunately for me, Christ has raised me up together with other believers, and made us sit together in HEAVENLY PLACES in Christ Jesus. Protestants are outside of the CATHOLIC Church because they know their salvation lies with the finished work of Christ, not a religious institution of works and membership in her for salvation.
I stand by the scripture.
There is no divinity degree required nor Pope to interpret to understand the truths of scripture.
All the disciples (save Paul) were uneducated men.
The basic doctrines of God are simple enough for a child to understand.
I don’t know what you are trying to convince me of -— It it not I that think others are going straight to hell if you don’t attend my “church”.
The shepherd knows his sheep, and his sheep know him.
Jesus has his saved written in his book. No man can open it, nor change what is in it.
It seems you think there is some merit in a war between Protestants and Catholics. Sad. I think there are Saved believers in both churches. There are many Protestants who will not be saved, and many Catholics who will not eiher. It does not matter the name over the door, what matters is your HEART. God is a judge of hearts, not of church attendance.
if someone (say a pacific islander) lived and never heard a Catholic or a Protestant preach, they are still without excuse.....Salvation and Revelation are from GOD, not from a church. Read Romans 1. If not, then what about all those who lived and died without hearing a Catholic or a Protestant?
The sad fact is that all earthly churches are DIM reflections of what they should be. God does not grade on a curve. The only thing that saves us is GRACE. Not WORKS. Not the Church. The grace of God, who sent his Son, to die in propitiation of our sins.
As I said before, if the Catholic church is growing you fine.
If you want to be exclusive, then that’s your decision.
I don’t suppose to damn anyone to hell. I don’t suppose Judas went....Maybe he came to his senses before his death? We don’t know. What did Jesus call Judas?
He called him “Friend”, while Judas was in the act of betraying him.
We should not judge/guess one’s fate, but we SHOULD state what scripture says they way of salvation is.
I don’t presume to judge. But I’ll leave it at the fact you stand by the tradition of the manner of interpreting scripture that you were taught.
What is or is not Biblical is in the eye of the beholder.
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