Posted on 11/07/2011 7:57:34 AM PST by marshmallow
(ABP) -- The sexuality conference in April will raise many issues. But for the theologically minded, the most important issue will probably be the question of religious authority.
Who or what carries binding authority in the Christian life? If the question is, for example, sexual morality, who or what has the authority to establish norms to which Christians must adhere? In a cultural (and ecclesial) context of innumerable conflicting practices and beliefs, who or what has the authority to settle the matter? Or is that even a coherent question? At least, is it a coherent question from within the framework of Baptist ecclesiology and theology?
The winners in the SBC controversy of 1979-1991 claimed that their fight was always about (re)establishing the authority of the “inerrant, infallible Word of God” in the life of the Southern Baptist Convention. They sought to heighten claims first about the inspiration of the Bible and then about its authority in Christian life.
Sometimes, though not always, they acknowledged that it is not quite sufficient to anchor down claims about biblical inspiration and authority. They acknowledged that the Bible is always an interpreted text. Some person, office, or body must be responsible for “rightly dividing the Word of truth” (2 Tim. 2:15 KJV). Often referencing pastoral epistle texts, some SBC leaders heightened pastoral interpretive authority along with biblical authority.
So that is one answer to the question of religious authority. Raise belief in the inerrancy and authority of the Bible as high as possible, deflecting all challenges to such belief, then elevate the pastor’s role in authoritatively interpreting the Bible for the congregation. These moves imply if not demand a posture of submission on the part of the lay Christian, who is trained to yield to the authority of Scripture and to the teaching authority of the pastor.
This approach is not all that different from the Catholic tradition -- a comment offered as observation, not criticism. The differences, of course, are that in Catholicism Scripture is treated as the first stage of Spirit-inspired tradition, and Scripture/tradition are interpreted authoritatively by the magisterium of the Church, organized hierarchically and headed by the pope. But both the current SBC and the Catholic approaches emphasize authority rather than freedom, submission to text and leadership rather than individual conscience or collective Christian discernment.
The potential benefits of such authoritative (if not authoritarian) approaches such are especially apparent when wrestling with issues like sexuality. Today all kinds of voices, both from within Christianity and outside it, are begging, cajoling, even demanding that Christians and churches rethink our purportedly oppressive, backwards, unrealistic, archaic sexual ethics. It would be so much easier -- and less stressful -- to simply go back to inerrant-Scripture-as-interpreted-by-pastor or inspired-tradition-as-interpreted-by-pope to resolve these issues.
Looking at some of the alternatives among non-SBC Baptists, in some cases I am really quite concerned. The Bible (at times) slips out of range of ever functioning as authoritative in any way that might compel behavior contrary to our preferences. Pastors (at times) abdicate any role of offering directive moral guidance through sermon or pastoral counsel. Christian tradition (at times) is sloughed off or treated primarily as a source of oppression.
Human beings are created good yet damaged by sin. In Christian morality we do need Scripture, pastor and tradition to help us discern God’s will for our lives. We need some kind of voice speaking to us to which we grant some kind of authority to exhort, correct and redirect our desires.
I believe we need a heightened role for communal Christian discernment, for listening to the voice of the Spirit together as we seek to follow Jesus together. I believe we need to read the signs of the times and hear the voices of marginalized and suffering people, for in their sorrows we can encounter Jesus himself. I do believe that Scripture can be wrongly interpreted and that both pastors and tradition can be and sometimes are quite wrong.
But I do not believe we do well to jettison all authorities outside the freely choosing Christian self, so prone to interpret fallible emotions and desires as divine authorization. Certainly we can and must do better than that.
David Gushee is distinguished university professor of Christian ethics at Mercer University.
Since John had the vision and wrote Revelation, wouldn’t he have had to wait for it? Scripture was completed at the time of God’s choosing.
2) Other than the specific command to John to pen the Revelation, Jesus never told His apostles to write anything down and compile it into an authoritative book.
3) Nowhere in the New Testament do the apostles tell future generations that the Christian faith will be based solely on a book.
4) The Bible does not have an inspired and infallible list of books that should belong in the Bible. Where did the table of contents come from?
Are you SURE? ARE you sure? Are YOU sure? When Jesus ascended into heaven and, as his sandals were disappearing, didn't he holler down: "READ MY BOOK!"??
Hmmm, I dunno.
Where is that in the Bible? The Bible does say the Church is the pillar and foundation of truth.
The article makes no sense. What is he concerned about? Church discipline? That is covered in scripture.
What else? How to interpret “Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.”?
Or is it just a plea to give pastors authority that scripture does not give them?
I am sure none of that is in the Bible.
“Who or what carries binding authority in the Christian life? Let me tell you whom. The Lord Jesus Christ Himself and His Word, the Holy Bible.
Sorry, but that is not what the Bible says:”
John 17:17” Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth. “
"All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be competent, equipped for every good work." - 2 Tim 3
What does a pillar or foundation do?
(”“Jesus never told His apostles to write anything down and compile it into an authoritative book.”)”
2 Tim 3:16-17 “ All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.”
This by the same guy gives some idea of the motivation:
“As one of the two organizers of the event, and in hopes of clarifying a few things, here are my answers to those questions...
...Most Christians and churches still teach or assume that sexual contact is only legitimate between a man and woman in a lifetime marriage relationship. All other sexual contact is a sinful violation of God’s will. But today barely half of adults are married.
Marriages are initiated later and later in life, if at all. Vast numbers of adults are divorced. Rates of cohabitation are growing. Meanwhile gays and lesbians are asking for a reconsideration of this exclusively heterosexual ethic...
...The event does not symbolize a capitulation to sexual libertinism, but instead is grounded on and will be consistently characterized by commitment to the norm that Christians are called to make and keep exclusive, binding covenants as the structure for their sexual expression.
Fourth, the conference is about the most significant issues in contemporary sexual ethics, including but not limited to homosexuality...
...Fifth, the conference is about discovering whether the Baptist family (or any contemporary Christian group) is capable of respectful and meaningful engagement of diverse people and perspectives in a discussion of sexuality.”
http://www.abpnews.com/content/view/6872/9/
Looks like they are trying to move authority away from scripture so as to allow a ‘new authority’ to accept homosexuality.
But here is another problem with your reasoning:
“But as for you, continue in what you have learned and have become convinced of, because you know those from whom you learned it, and how from infancy you have known the holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. 16 2 Tim 3:14-15
Now lets look at context and reality:
1. This was written to Timothy
2. Timothy was born in 17 AD
Therefore, the Scripture Paul is referring to is The Old Testament
Timothy was convinced Christ was Lord, and he could see proof from the Scripture.
Where in the Bible do the apostles even hint at the possibility that the one Church established by Christ would later be replaced by a book?
Paul was refering to the Old Testament, the Scripture Timothy studied in his infancy.
It is not that the Bible replaces the church. It is that ‘God’s breath’ is not flawed. All scripture - past and future - is covered. And when used for correction, etc, it fully equips the man of God for “every good work”.
The high view of scripture held by the Jews is shown in that unlearned men like the Apostles could quote it easily. It cannot be overruled by man, and it doesn’t need to be added to...there was no need to invent Purgatory, for example, because Paul taught ‘the whole counsel of God’, and because scripture equips for EVERY good work.
And there is no need for American Baptists or anyone else to look for an authority that will allow bringing in unrepentant homosexuals.
(””Where is that in the Bible?”
“All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be competent, equipped for every good work.” - 2 Tim 3)”
Eph. 3:2-5 “If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:
3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; “
1Cor. 14:37 “If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.”
John 20:31 “31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.”
1 Jn. 1:4 “ And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full. “
1 John 2:1 “ 1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:”
1 John 5:13 “13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.”
1 Cor 4:6 “6 And these things, brethren, I have in a figure transferred to myself and to Apollos for your sakes; that ye might learn in us not to think of men above that which is written, that no one of you be puffed up for one against another. “
Rev. 20:12 “12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. “
Rom 2:16 “16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel. “
James 2:12 “12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty. “
John 12:14 “48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. “
In this case, it is Christ’s promise that the visible Church he established will always teach the Truth.
“Careful to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. One body and one Spirit: as you are called in one hope of your calling. One Lord, one faith, one baptism.” Eph 4:3-5
The Church is to be one, not many.
“And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.” Mat 6:18
Here Christ says his Church will not be destroyed.
“I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.” John 16:12-13
“But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth.” 1Tim 3:15
Here Christ says, and Paul reaffirms, that the Church will always teach the TRUTH.
Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."Mat 28:18-20
Again, here Jesus assures us that He is always with us, to the very end.
So Christ says His Church will not be destroyed or fall away from him, that the Holy Spirit will guide the Church to always teach the Truth, and He will always be with us. The Church is much more than a collection of nice people who read a Bible and believe anything they want.
Maybe not literally, but he told them this:
Matthew 28:16-20; And Jesus came and spoke unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. (19) Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: (20) Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
In order to fulfill this commission, the disciples worked diligently to compile in writing all that they remembered of His teachings.
That's where what you dismissively call a mere "book" came from: the word of the Savior, which trumps anything cooked up by conclaves and councils of some church of fallible men centuries later.
Are u saying the N.T. is not inspired?
With all due respect, you are just making this up.
The Bible tells us otherwise: “Jesus did many other things as well. If every one of them were written down, I suppose that even the whole world would not have room for the books that would be written. John 21:25
What did Peter write?
"16For we did not follow cleverly devised myths when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we were eyewitnesses of his majesty. 17For when he received honor and glory from God the Father, and the voice was borne to him by the Majestic Glory, "This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased," 18we ourselves heard this very voice borne from heaven, for we were with him on the holy mountain. 19And we have something more sure, the prophetic word, to which you will do well to pay attention as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts, 20knowing this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture comes from someone’s own interpretation. 21For no prophecy was ever produced by the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit."
And why? Because, in the next verse:
"1But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction. 2And many will follow their sensuality, and because of them the way of truth will be blasphemed. 3And in their greed they will exploit you with false words. Their condemnation from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep."
What is our guard against false prophets and teachers? Scripture. What will try to lead us astray? Man.
"In this case, it is Christ’s promise that the visible Church he established will always teach the Truth."
No. It is the function of the church to uphold the truth - not to replace it. And who - not what - teaches truth?
"26But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you...7Nevertheless, I tell you the truth: it is to your advantage that I go away, for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you. But if I go, I will send him to you. 8 And when he comes, he will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment: 9concerning sin, because they do not believe in me; 10 concerning righteousness, because I go to the Father, and you will see me no longer; 11 concerning judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged.
12"I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. 13When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come. 14He will glorify me, for he will take what is mine and declare it to you. 15 All that the Father has is mine; therefore I said that he will take what is mine and declare it to you."
Not at all! I'm just saying the Scripture Paul told Timothy he studied in his infancy was the Old Testament.
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