Purgatory and Praying for All the Faithful Departed

Insight Scoop ^ | November 2, 2011 | Carl Olson

[Judith Anne]

Three hours after the thread was openws as a Catholic Caucus thread, and after numerous non-Catholics had posted on the thread, the Religion Mod changed the designation to non-Caucus.

The confusion was not caused by me. I, like numerous Catholic posters, prefer to post on Caucus threads of interest to me, particularly to stay away from controversy on Catholic topics. If you read the thread, a number of Catholic posters protested against the non-Cathlic posters, not me only. I feel no need to be courteous to those who jump on Caucus threads to argue about Catholic topics. This is commonly done, and is very rude. If you have a problem, take it to the mod. I can assure you, if a Catholic posted on a defferent caucus thread, the other csucus would protest even more loudly, as they have in the past.

Have a charming day.

[HarleyD]

if one accepts this, then works DO have a part to play, right? God accepts they works

Of course works DO play a part. The question really is WHO gives you those "good" works that are pleasing to God?

Jhn 6:28 Then they said to him, "What must we do, to be doing the works of God?"
Jhn 6:29 Jesus answered them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent."

There is only ONE work that we need to do, believe. And we even have to pray for our belief. Our Lord Jesus is the vine. We are the branches. It is He that cause us to bear fruit.

God commands that we go and bear fruit. But God must bless us so that we will bear fruit. It's like Augustine's prayer, "Command what you will, and grant what you command." God told Adam and Eve's race to go forth, be fruitful and multiply. Yet we say children are a GIFT from God, which they are. It isn't because Adam and Eve's race ability to create children. It is because God creates the souls. God commands and yet God must grant what He's commanded.

This is an extremely important principle on the nature of God. I only wished that I thought it up. :O)

[Religion Moderator]

The antagonism on this thread was caused by non-caucus members challenging the caucus on thread.

In the future, when any of you believe the article does not qualify for a "caucus" contact me by Freepmail.

Do not disturb the caucus.

If it does not qualify, I will follow-up and remove the caucus label with an explanation.

[Judith Anne]

Thank you.

[Jedidah]

You must admit that Judith Anne’s hatefulness contributed to the “antagonism” to which you refer.

I asked an honest question. Her attitude does not reflect well on the church.

[Religion Moderator]

It takes two to tango.

That said, don't make this thread "about" individual Freepers. That is also a form of "making it personal."

Discuss the issues all you want, but do not make it personal.

[Salvation]

So right.

Whatever happened to “Love one another as Christ has loved you.”

“Love your enemies.”

“Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.”

[Religion Moderator]

I would like to see all of that on this forum.

[johngrace]

First you post this on a thread about praying for the dead person's living soul..

Ecc 9:5" For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing, and they have no more reward, for the memory of them is forgotten. "

That the dead know nothing and no reward( Is this not your original intent). Then I show you in scripture were people who have been dead for centuries shows they were in a middle state between here and heaven. Who obviously are going to Heaven by Christ. There are released in the Gospel. Then you go on with still not understanding the significance of what went on with this gospel

"And none of the people that were raised would I classify in the sense of "holy" as I take it you mean."

I quoted scripture only about Holy.The Holy you question is in the Gospel of Matthew. I did not put it there. The Holy Spirit did by Matthew.

Matthew 27:51 "At that moment the curtain of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom. The earth shook, the rocks split 52 and the tombs broke open. The bodies of many holy people who had died were raised to life. 53 They came out of the tombs after Jesus’ resurrection and[e] went into the holy city and appeared to many people."

Freeper Regards!!

[johngrace]

A good explanation. I read it is the Trip to heaven by theologians that believe in purgatory. That is it in a nutshell to get away from all the misunderstanding stereo type remarks. It is the trip to heaven. Some do not know that if a soul is in this state, heaven is the final destination.

I have read were people thought a soul can lose heaven which is impossible. Why because it is the trip by God in this belief. No more chance for hell.

[HarleyD]

Can you show me ANYWHERE in these verses where it states that these people were in purgatory? According to the verses it said they were "asleep"-another term often used for dead. But by your own admission these were "holy" people or saints of the church. Are you prepare to tell me the saints in the Catholic Church are now in purgatory?

Mat 27:51 And behold, the curtain of the temple was torn in two, from top to bottom. And the earth shook, and the rocks were split.

Mat 27:52 The tombs also were opened. And many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised,

Mat 27:53 and coming out of the tombs after his resurrection they went into the holy city and appeared to many.

[johngrace]

You are reading it differently. You have a different way of looking at it.

Freeper Regards!!

[Campion]

The idea of purgatory has been around for 600 years or so

No, even the word "purgatory" (well, the Latin equivalent purgatorio) is older than that. A papal document associated with a council, the Council of Lyon in the 13th century, basically said, "well, the Greeks say they don't believe in purgatory, but we do, so they should, too".

The concept goes back to the Jewish practice of prayer for the dead, which is reflected in 2 Maccabees, and has apparently been part of Jewish practice from that time to the present day. It appears to have been part of Christian practice from Apostolic times. Tertullian (around AD 200) discusses prayer for the dead at some length.

St. Augustine spoke of the dead who were saved, but still had some minor attachment to sin that prevented them from immediately entering heaven, as suffering poenae purgatoriae ("purgatorial punishments" or "punishments of purgation"). From there, it was an easy jump to the word purgatorio as the name for the state or place in which those punishments took place.