On judging Joel Osteen (Is it judgmental to call Osteen 'insufferable'?)

Joel Miller on the Intersection of Life and Faith ^ | 10/31/2011 | Joel Miller

[SZonian]

I figured as much, but I asked because you mentioned the mormons are overwhelmingly conservative. [paraphrased]

When 94%+ of the votes went to Romney in the 2008 primary, would you consider that a vote for conservatism or simply identity politics?

[Vigilanteman]

I'd call it a logical choice considering the alternatives were two other RINOs (McCain & Huckabee) and a moonbat (Ron Paul) with a smattering of identity politics.

Duncan Hunter, a Baptist, won his only delegate in another Mormon heavy state (Wyoming).

It's rather hypocritical to lambaste an entire religious demographic for the sake of religion and then whine that they practice identity politics. Who doesn't to some extent or the other?

[fungoking]

“Wow. Just wow. As if you had any authority as to what goes on in people's hearts when they ask Jesus to become their Lord and Saviour. Or even when and how God chooses to call them to Him. I wouldn't dare question how God does things, but hey...if that's your view of our Lord..what can I say besides, good luck with that.

No wonder some folks want nothing to do with Christians. Sheesh.”

Lighten up Francis...

The original post used “he” in reference to Osteen as in “the number he has saved”. My point was if he (osteen) saved them, as opposed to salvation through Christ, then “they ain't saved”. Since the Bible says that salvation ONLY comes through Jesus (I am the Way, the Truth, and the Light, no man come to the Father but by Me) I stand by my post.

No wonder some folks want nothing to do with people who can't read for context and comprehension. Sheesh.

[fabian]

Olsteen is so nice and sweet, doesn't harm anyone’s ego and that is why he is so big. Jesus came as kindness but also to bring a sword of separation.

[fungoking]

Our will is under bondage to sin until God sets it free, until then we are totally unable to choose for Christ. Indeed at that point we cannot choose otherwise.
Christ died for the elect. This is plainly taught in scripture. Indeed the entire modern concept of “free will” is a relatively recent construct. To think that we can foil the plan of God through exercise of our own will flies in the face of God's character. Jesus did not just make salvation possible, He secured it completely on the cross, and since he accomplished it the plan is complete. There is nothing more that needs to be done in order to secure salvation.

*shaking my head at the thought of someone saying that Jesus died for them and not me because I wasn't “predestined”*. Wow.

This comes from a lack of understanding of the subject of predestination. All who are, have been, or ever will be saved have been predestined to it. If you are a Christian, you have been too, you just have been taught that you had to do something (walk an aisle, say a prayer, etc....) to earn it. Nothing is further from the truth.

I would have a problem with someone saying that Jesus died for them and not me because I wasn't “predestined” too, because they have no way of knowing that I wasn't predestined to salvation. Some come to faith earlier than others, all in God's timing.

I've never met a 5 pointer, or a 7, who didn't think they were part of the elect as were their wife and kids. Easier to believe that there was a heavenly salvation lottery before time and that's just the way it is if you think you are one of the winners of that lottery.

[P8riot]

No lottery, God predetermined our destiny, whether for good or evil. We each know in our heart how we relate to God, those that follow Christ and adhere to the scriptures can say with reasonable certainty that they are part of the elect.

I can't understand the need that some Christians have for feeding their own egos by somehow saying that they overcame their sin nature on their own, and chose Christ. Scripture is clear that we are hopelessly lost, and cannot approach God, except through his work of regeneration in our hearts. We bring absolutely nothing to the table but our sin. It is God who saves, not us.

[fungoking]

“I can't understand the need that some Christians have for feeding their own egos by somehow saying that they overcame their sin nature on their own, and chose Christ.”

I have never heard anyone (other than as a Calvinist straw man) claim this.

I guess we agree on this statement, no one can be saved unless convicted and called by the Holy Spirit.

I believe scripture teaches that there is no limit of who can be called, and at the time of the calling man can follow or stay in his sinful state. While God (being God) knows what the decision will be, he allows freedom of choice. The logical conclusion of this line of thought is that we need to follow the Great Commission and do as much as we can to spread the Gospel.

If there is no free will then why bother? Those who are going to be saved can't do anything to stop it and the condemned can't do anything to change it.

I just makes no sense of Jesus last words on Earth was to go evangelize the world if it really doesn't matter. Now let me be clear, I believe God had every right to set the way for man's atonement any way he wanted to. Like I said, show me a Calvinist who doesn't think they or their wife and children aren't one of the elect.