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To: Mad Dawg; metmom
This is getting tiresome. I simply cannot see how an attempt to present what the Scriptures actually say would quote Phil 2;13 without 2:12 or the other way around. Unless one were forcing the Scriptures to fit one's theology, which, I am told, is cultic.

Indeed it is tiresome...

The Greek word translated “work out” means “to perform, accomplish, achieve, or complete.” ...it does not mean to work to be saved...it does not say work to be saved..it says work out YOUR SALVATION ..an accomplished fact

238 posted on 10/24/2011 10:31:34 AM PDT by RnMomof7
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To: RnMomof7
Okay

perform your salvation.
accomplish your salvation.
achieve your salvation.
complete your salvation.


Take your pick. There is NOTHING in either of those translations that says what you say it says.

Why perform it if it is accomplished?
Why accomplish it if ditto?
Why achieve it if "?
Why complete it if "?


You say it is accomplished. That's your word. (not without ample scriptural precedent.)
So if it is accomplished,why accomplish it?

If it needs to be performed, accomplished, achieved or completed, then what does "accomplished" mean?

I'm not saying it's not accomplished. I AM saying that in this pair of verses Paul is saying (as elsewhere) that the whole time thing, the whole "done, but needs to be worked out" or "true, but needs to come true" means it's just not as simple as your side makes it out to be, between bouts of insulting us.

Do you think it's an ACCIDENT that the language of God's chosen has weird tenses?

IF we are risen with Christ, evidently some of us still fail to seek those things which are above, and that needs to be changed, not that we might be saved but because we are.

I say again,for the eleventy-twelth time, the doctrine is that those in Purgatory are already saved. Nothing they do in purgation is so that they might be saved. They ARE saved. It's a red herring to raise the notion that what they do there is so that they will be saved. It's not what we say,and it leaves me wondering why raise things we do NOT say?

Purgatory then, like penances now, are undertaken NOT to earn salvation, which is absurd, but because they are the "performance, accomplishing, achievement, and completion" of what is already true. They follow Paul's injunction "κατεργαζεσθε".

The next verse, the one you cited, is interesting because it uses a present participle as a substantive. θεοζ γαρεστιν ο ενεργων εν θμιν. God, for(gar is postpositive)is the in-working [one] in you.

It seems to be IN process AS WELL AS accomplished.

243 posted on 10/24/2011 11:25:34 AM PDT by Mad Dawg (Jesus, I trust in you.)
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