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To: Salvation; CynicalBear
Christ died for my sins, and you know that all Catholics accept that. What you do not perceive, however, is the damage I did to someone else. I must do that reparation too. I can’t cop out on my responsibilities. Are you responsible for your sins?

The example used several times in this thread about breaking someone's window and having to endure some kind of "temporal" punishment to make "reparations" for that wrong. Has anyone thought that perhaps the reparations God wants us to do when we have wronged someone is for us to make amends TO the person we have wronged? If I sin against another person, God first expects me to confess my sin to him THEN confess and ask forgiveness of the human involved, too. I should - while here on earth alive - try my best to make amends for the wrongs I have committed. But these actions are NOT related to my eternal salvation simply because Jesus paid the penalty of all my sins by his blood.

The whole purpose of reparations, anyway, is to the benefit of both the offender and the offended. The offender knows forgiveness for his wrong acts from the one he wronged and he knows God has forgiven him and fellowship with both is restored. The offended knows that the one who offended admits they're wrong and asks for forgiveness, which he should then grant. All this is and MUST be done at the physical, earthly stage because, once one or the other dies, the purpose of that is over. Many people feel guilt because someone they hurt died and they never went to them to ask for forgiveness. Many people feel bitterness because someone who did them wrong died and never came to them and said they were sorry. The "reparations" whole purpose MUST be on this side of Heaven. It is for both of our benefits but to carry it over into the eternal realm and insist that God expects us to make reparations for some wrong we did without making "good" on it while still alive is both unscriptural and unreasonable. Why even "bother" asking for forgiveness for our wrongs or make it up to someone we hurt, if we can just "take care of it" in Purgatory? Makes no sense. THAT would be "copping out" on my responsibilities. Damage to the "eternal order" of things having to be made right smacks of "karma" and that is NOT what Christ taught.

We only can go to Heaven if our sins have been paid for, and ONLY the blood of Christ pays for sin. No amount of suffering on earth OR in between Heaven and earth could ever be enough. When we die we either go to Heaven or to Hades/Hell. If we are "in Christ" by faith, then we have eternal life with him. No amount of good works or suffering can save us.

182 posted on 10/23/2011 11:41:34 PM PDT by boatbums ( Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us. Titus 3:5)
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To: boatbums; Salvation
Again, with respect, I think Salvation erred in her articulation of what is "paid for" by purgation. IMHO it is the effect of sin on our selves. My purgatory rant for RCIA is an extended analogy between sin and "repetitive stress injury" and purgatory and physical therapy.

We only can go to Heaven if our sins have been paid for, and ONLY the blood of Christ pays for sin. No amount of suffering on earth OR in between Heaven and earth could ever be enough.

No argument there. We would say the sacrifice of Christ makes the gift of purgatory available because the sin has been paid for.

186 posted on 10/24/2011 2:44:36 AM PDT by Mad Dawg (Jesus, I trust in you.)
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To: boatbums; Salvation
>> God wants us to do when we have wronged someone is for us to make amends TO the person we have wronged<<

That’s exactly what it means along with whether the things we did added to the Kingdom of God or were earthly and of little worth. All the sins we have committed or errors we committed, whether by omission of commission, have been forgiven as far as eternity is concerned.

God says He forgives and forgets. How then can He bring them up again later?

195 posted on 10/24/2011 6:01:32 AM PDT by CynicalBear
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To: boatbums
We only can go to Heaven if our sins have been paid for, and ONLY the blood of Christ pays for sin. No amount of suffering on earth OR in between Heaven and earth could ever be enough. When we die we either go to Heaven or to Hades/Hell. If we are "in Christ" by faith, then we have eternal life with him. No amount of good works or suffering can save us.

Even Christ's suffering wasn't enough to pay for the atonement. It required His LIFE; the shedding of blood.

If anyone's suffering alone were enough to atone for sins, Jesus wouldn't have needed to die.

Another thing that making reparations can do in a situation where harm is done is show the sincerity of the person who was the offender, mainly if they come forward and offer to do it. If it's enforced from the outside, it shows no sincerity of heart. It's still right because it's justice, but does not mean as much to the offended.

200 posted on 10/24/2011 6:59:18 AM PDT by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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