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What the Church means by Purgatory
Fallible Blogma ^ | October 21, 2011

Posted on 10/22/2011 1:21:35 PM PDT by NYer

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To: metmom
I can figure mental age.

Same here. I can even tell you what type of person someone is mentally.

For example, someone on this thread is either mentally a) an 8 year old crybaby or b) a 16 year old scorned lover.

421 posted on 10/25/2011 6:00:19 PM PDT by WPaCon
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To: CynicalBear; Cronos; boatbums; Natural Law; Mad Dawg; sayuncledave
Perhaps if you understood ALL of scripture you would realize that those who are not of Jesus flock don’t even “hear” (as in understand) what He says. So indeed Jesus words are only for those who believe and are part of His flock.

Scripture is clear that spiritual things are spiritually understood.. you are right..they see the words but they can not understand them...They do not have spiritual eyes to see or spiritual ears to hear..

1Cr 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.

422 posted on 10/25/2011 6:00:38 PM PDT by RnMomof7
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To: Mad Dawg
"Because God is generous and gracious and wants us to be happy! Why else?"

Indeed. The proper translation of "Blessed" as spoken by Jesus in the Beatitudes is "Happy". Sounds pretty darned theological to me.

423 posted on 10/25/2011 6:00:38 PM PDT by Natural Law (Transubstantiation - Change we can believe in.)
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To: WPaCon

Ah, the signs of desperation setting in. The old “nah-nah-boo-boo” stance of certain doom. And ridicule.


424 posted on 10/25/2011 6:02:07 PM PDT by smvoice (The Cross was NOT God's Plan B.)
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To: WPaCon; metmom
Forgive me for lowering myself to speaking in terms that you would understand.

Ohh she understood that..she has had 12 year old's

425 posted on 10/25/2011 6:09:17 PM PDT by RnMomof7
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To: smvoice

My dear friend (albeit a tad cantankerous now and then):

Apology for what? WHAT offense? All is made new. Let’s party!

okay?


426 posted on 10/25/2011 6:11:59 PM PDT by Mad Dawg (Jesus, I trust in you.)
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To: WPaCon

Did you notice that I have the mentality of an 8 year old boy who just saw his first potato(e) gun?


427 posted on 10/25/2011 6:13:32 PM PDT by Mad Dawg (Jesus, I trust in you.)
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To: smvoice
Thank you for saying that, smvoice. I know that is my motivation as well. I pray every day for those who read these threads for God to open their eyes to the truth so they may be saved. Our words are not to try to “steal” members away from some religion, but to preach the gospel, in season and out of season. I don't always succeed, but I try very hard to do it with love. Nothing is impossible with God, even dyed-in-the-wool Saul - who persecuted the believers in Christ - had his heart and soul touched by the truth of God and he became one of the strongest witnesses for the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
428 posted on 10/25/2011 6:23:19 PM PDT by boatbums ( Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us. Titus 3:5)
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To: RnMomof7
.not very theological..

Well, ex-cuh-YOOOZE MOI!

It's VERY theological. It positively OOZES theology!

God has always wanted us to be happy. He does not willingly afflict or grieve the children of, uh, persons.

And to see Him and to be able to bear the sight is supreme happiness, for it is written, "When I awake I shall be satisfied, holding thy likeness." And again, "Wake, oh sleeper, and rise from the dead, and Christ will give thee light.

How happy those shepherds and mages who saw him! How happy will we be to see the perfection of manhood, God made visible to sinful man!

All God ever wanted was men strong enough to survive the torrent of His love, and when we insisted on death, then torrents of death overwhelmed us, but it was always Him, always his Love. He never stopped seeking our Good, who is Himself.

He means to dwell in us, and that we be fitted to be his temple. Can we imagine that this would come without tearing down walls and building up foundations to bear so glorious and weighty a presence?

He means to share all He has and is with us. And as an early toddler must learn to let go, so we must be taught to cast aside our old inclinations and clinging that our hands may be open for his gift of Himself. We must sell all we have for one pearl. And He will teach us to do so happily, because happiness is what he made us for. And when we look back we will see that what we thought was a desolate valley was full of springs, for all the road to joy is joy.

VERY theological. Theological to the MAX!

429 posted on 10/25/2011 6:32:07 PM PDT by Mad Dawg (Jesus, I trust in you.)
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To: Mad Dawg; boatbums; Cronos; annalex; smvoice; metmom; daniel1212
>> I don't mean that those destined to be canonized are the only sort who can enjoy the blessed assurance.<<

All who believe on the Lord Jesus and put their trust in him can have “blessed assurance”. It just may be the most important subject we can discuss.

1 John 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

John 6:47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.

The word translated "believeth" (KJV) is a continuous tense word. In other words, if you continue to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ can be assured that he/she has everlasting life.

As long as we are steadfast in the faith we are assured of our eternal life.

1 John 2:24 Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father. 25 And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.

430 posted on 10/25/2011 6:33:45 PM PDT by CynicalBear
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To: Mad Dawg

Hey, I’m with you, my friend! :)


431 posted on 10/25/2011 6:36:52 PM PDT by smvoice (The Cross was NOT God's Plan B.)
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To: Quix

For extra credit, identify all the Scripture references in the post to which this is a reply.

And where is my brother Quix? Quix, the font-endowed? Quix the colorful?

What a shame that we all love the Lord and are all at each other’s throats! On the last day Quix and I will point at each other and say, “See, Lord? By your grace our love was stronger than our differences. Is that wedding garment enough for you?”


432 posted on 10/25/2011 6:41:47 PM PDT by Mad Dawg (Jesus, I trust in you.)
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To: Mad Dawg; Quix

Where IS Quix??? I’ve missed him :)


433 posted on 10/25/2011 6:45:10 PM PDT by smvoice (The Cross was NOT God's Plan B.)
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To: smvoice

When he reads that, Satan trembles.


434 posted on 10/25/2011 6:45:29 PM PDT by Mad Dawg (Jesus, I trust in you.)
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To: smvoice
Ah, the signs of desperation setting in. The old “nah-nah-boo-boo” stance of certain doom. And ridicule.

And you'd never do those things, right?...

435 posted on 10/25/2011 6:46:56 PM PDT by WPaCon
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To: Mad Dawg

lol

Believe it or not, you’re not one of the people who I think have a childish mindset.


436 posted on 10/25/2011 6:49:32 PM PDT by WPaCon
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To: CynicalBear
I don't mean this to be adversarial. it's too late at night to fight.

We had, for a little while, a very fine friar (ask for definition and I will provide). A Polack, a plow-horse of a man, and a very good thinker. He and I taught together a little and talked together a lot. And I told him about my efforts here.

He said, "Ah! Bottom line Christianity."(You have to imagine the Dracula accent.)

Here's what I think he meant. It's related to what I struggled to express in my post about not being tacky.

When I pray, when I think of Jesus, I just don't think about what WILL happen.

Fr. Jacek would always say, "Eet is AWL about the Pairsonal Encounter weeth Christ!"

(I love this guy. I wrote a talk to give to my brothers and sister lay Dominicans and he said, "Eess a piece of crap," when I showed it to him. So I rewrote the whole thing, and I thanked him for holding my feet to the fire. He bowed to me!)

But what he said describes my "piety" (no, NOT ees a piece of crap!,though that may be true too.)

Look. How can I say this and convey the idea? In our 'ritual' there comes a time when the priest breaks the bread and we all say the "Agnus Dei"(again, ask if you need details.) My personal prayer at that time is this:

Lord Jesus, break my heart, for I trust that if you break it, you will mend it, and fill it with yourself, than whom I desire no one and nothing more.
Your side is right in this. The lover wants a commitment and wants to make a commitment. So we want to hear our beloved pledge herself to us forever.

But in the throes of love, we MAKE commitments. We do not ask for them (though we are happy to hear them). I am, so to speak, too busy loving my Lord right here and now to think about tomorrow. I want him to know that I am his and my trust and hope is in him.

WHATEVER my fate, right now I love Him. This moment fills my mind.

And this plays into our not talking, our being almost embarrassed to talk about "blessed assurance". "I am my beloved's, and he is mine." Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.

437 posted on 10/25/2011 7:12:30 PM PDT by Mad Dawg (Jesus, I trust in you.)
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To: Mad Dawg

The Wiki states that

In the twentieth century, a movement for the canonization of Frà Savonarola began to develop within the Roman Catholic Church, particularly among Dominicans, with many judging his excommunication and execution to have been unjust. His potential beatification and canonization is opposed by many Jesuits, who consider Savonarola’s (secular) conflict with the papacy to have been an intolerable crime.


438 posted on 10/25/2011 7:14:05 PM PDT by daniel1212 (Our sinful deeds condemn us, but Christ's death and resurrection gains salvation. Repent +Believe)
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To: WPaCon

wWell, I mean to build a potato gun before I die.


439 posted on 10/25/2011 7:14:43 PM PDT by Mad Dawg (Jesus, I trust in you.)
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To: Mad Dawg

(1)The souls in purgatory ARE freed from sin. Honestly, read Dante.

Of more authority Aquinas taught that souls in Purgatory cannot sin. But Rm 6 is not simply about not sinning, but overcoming its draw, yet this was only one reference to this world and life being the place of testing of character and practical sanctification, which multitude texts show, versus the next.

Dante presents Purgatory as joyful!

How much authority is he (honestly)? Augustine (Enarration on Psalm 37, no. 3) speaks of the pain which purgatorial fire causes as more severe than anything a man can suffer in this life. Likewise Gregory the Great states "that the pain be more intolerable than any one can suffer in this life" CE on Purgatory.http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12575a.htm

(2) The other vibe, that a lot of Catholics get wrong too, is the persistent idea of a top down, legislative or executive Vatican and a set of faith and morals teachings laid out like the income tax code.

A valid observation i would say, especially when seeking to contrast Rome with us that is, and is what i was referring to.

I was just checking the Catholic Encyclopedia on Semi-Pelagianism and was struck once again how it’s not like that at ALL.

And you heard of the war about predestination. But then you have the fierce sedevacantists.

I think a lot of non-Catholics have the idea that everything can be derived from the Scriptures.

You think rightly. But insofar as faith and morals it must be, yet not simply formally but materially which provides for reason, and the magisterium, etc. The key thing in SS is that Scripture remains the supreme infallible authority, out of which doctrine comes, as explicitly declared as well as warranted by a confluence of texts, and all truth claims are tested by.

440 posted on 10/25/2011 7:16:58 PM PDT by daniel1212 (Our sinful deeds condemn us, but Christ's death and resurrection gains salvation. Repent +Believe)
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