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To: sr4402
Thank you for your well written answer.

Sure and thanks for the kind reply.

You replied that it is by "prayer, repentance, fasting and charity". In other words by your own actions.

Well, it is a two way street. G-d has made it clear in scripture, that we are responsible for our own sins and no one can do it for us. We can not "offload" our sins.

Deuteronomy 24:16: The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the father. Every man shall be put to death for his own sin.

Ezekiel 18: The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

In Exodus 32:30-35, Moses tries to offer himself as an atonement for the sins of the people. To be written out of God's book, means to be written out of the Book of Life, which means Moses was asking to die for the sins of the People. God's response was "No, it does not work that way, each man dies for his own sin:"

And it came to pass on the morrow, that Moses said unto the people, Ye have sinned a great sin: and now I will go up unto the Eternal; perhaps I shall make an atonement for your sin. And Moses returned unto the Eternal, and said, Oh, this people have sinned a great sin, and have made them gods of gold. Yet now, if thou wilt forgive their sin--; and if not, blot me, I pray thee, out of thy book which thou hast written. And the Eternal said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book. Therefore now go, lead the people unto the place of which I have spoken unto thee:

So, there you have it. No one can atone for our sins on our behalf. He who sins...must deal with his own sin (G-d is a conservative! Personal responsibility!)

It is incumbent upon us to ask G-d for forgiveness, repent, turn away from sin and or fast, give to charity. And G-d through His mercy (chessed) promises to forgive us. THAT is the two way street of "keeping the law". It doesnt mean you are a perfect human being if you "keep" the law. It means you are doing your best to do your part...And by G-ds grace...he forgives us. How do we know? What is my proof?

Abraham: Not perfect. Yet G-d says: Genesis 26:I will multiply your descendants as the stars of heaven, and will give your descendants all these lands; and by your descendants all the nations of the earth shall be blessed; 5 because Abraham obeyed Me and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes and My laws.”

Abraham kept the law. Even before the law was given! Was he perfect? no.

Noah was righteous, David had a heart for G-d, Hezekiah was righteous and Caleb too. And there are others obviously.

So, the system works! G-d did not lay out a preplanned failure for His people! That would be the work of a mean or even evil god, to have omniscience and set up a law that is impossible to do...when telling us we CAN do it in Dt 30!

G-ds also tells us the law is forever!(Psalm 111 and many others) Not to be changed: Dt 4:2 2 (C)You shall not add to the word which (D)I am commanding you, nor take away from it, that you may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you. Dt 12:32 “[a](C)Whatever I command you, you shall be careful to do; (D)you shall not add to nor take away from it.

The law including the sacrifical system is returning during the messianic era. Ezekiel 44. Even the Gentiles must be cicumsized to enter the temple grounds...The priesthood is restored...and they will teach the law...the clean and unclean.

G-d also forbids human sacrifice. Jesus was a human therefore ineligeble for sacrfice.

Both puts the burden on you that you will know every last sin on yourselves and be able to get rid of them in that very last instance....

As I have noted earlier, the sin bearing IS ours because G-d has said so. As long as we are walking with G-d, in this two way street, we are doing what is required. Proof?

Micah 6: 7 Does the LORD take delight in thousands of rams, In ten thousand rivers of oil? (NO! my emphasis) Shall I present my firstborn for my rebellious acts, The fruit of my body for the sin of my soul? (No human sacrifice!) 8 He has told you, O man, what is good; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God

However our faith says that G-d is correct in Leviticus 17:11 "For the life of the flesh is in the blood, and I have given it for you on the altar to make atonement for your souls, for it is the blood that makes atonement by the life." we contend that blood is required ...

Respectfully, this is a misquotation of scripture from the book of Hebrews..I think chapter 9. You have to look carefully what Lev 17 is saying. It says dont eat blood! It is not a food source! Dont let anyone in your midst...even gentiles eat blood! James repeats this command in Acts 15. Bloods only use is to be sprinkled on the altar and the remaining portion dumped on the ground and then covered. Now heres the critical part:.....It does NOT say....that blood is the ONLY means of atonement. Again..Lev 5:11 Flour is a sin offering! And these scriptures...

..if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then will I hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and will heal their land. [2 Chronicles 7:14]

You do not delight in sacrifice, or I would bring it; you do not take pleasure in burnt offerings. The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit; a broken and contrite heart, O God, you will not despise. [Psalm 51:16-17]

Sacrifice and offering you did not desire, but my ears you have pierced; burnt offerings and sin offerings you did not require. [Psalm 40:6]

Take words with you and return to the Eternal. Say to him: "Forgive all our sins and receive us graciously, that we may offer the bulls of our lips. (Hosea 14:2 Prayer!)

He who conceals his sins does not prosper, but whoever confesses and renounces them finds mercy. [Proverbs 28:13]

He prays to God and finds favor with him, he sees God's face and shouts for joy; he is restored by God to his righteous state. [Job 33:26]

The story of the book of Jonah. Jonah tried to escape from doing God's will, and preaching to the People of Ninevah. After the problem with the great fish, he goes to the people of Ninevah, says five words to them (in the original Hebrew) and what do they do? They fast ("let neither man nor beast, herd nor flock, taste anything. Let them not feed or drink water" Jonah 3:7) just as the Jews do on Yom Kippur. The people of Ninevah also prayed ("Let them cry mightily to God." Jonah 3:8) just as the Jews do on Yom Kippur. And, finally, the people of Ninevah stopped doing Evil, started doing Good ("Let everyone turn from his evil ways and from the violence which is in his hands." Jonah 3:8) as we are, hopefully, inspired to do on Yom Kippur. What was God's response? God forgave them of their sins because of their actions ("When God saw what they did, how they turned from their evil way, God repented of the Evil which He had said He would do unto them, and He did not do it." Jonah 3:10) Please note that the text does NOT read that God saw their sacrifices, the People of Ninevah were never commanded to sacrifice.

G-d gave us these means of Grace. They are forever and not to be changed. These are not words but His. Jews are obligated to the Torah. Non-Jews are obligated to keep the laws of Noah (Genesis 9)given to all manking prior to the law of Moses. The sheva mitzvot or the 7 commandments. (Which is probably what James was getting at in Acts 15)

shalom shalom FRiend!

29 posted on 10/18/2011 12:43:10 PM PDT by blasater1960 (Deut 30, Psalm 111...the Torah and the Law, is attainable past, present and forever.)
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To: blasater1960

A bump for your wonderfully eloquent post...thanks again from a seeker who found the right path with help from your postings!


30 posted on 10/18/2011 12:47:21 PM PDT by magritte
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To: blasater1960
Thank you for your reply.

There is only one more thing before I go.

My wife is an ER nurse at the 6th busiest ER in the nation. She sees folks dying a lot.

Those who are trusting in themselves are usually freaking out with all kinds of worries, sometimes cursing G-d, sometimes cursing others and themselves.

But she says those who have placed their faith upon G-d who has atoned for their sins are at peace ready to move on.

It is just an observation. Peace to you as well.

31 posted on 10/18/2011 12:52:58 PM PDT by sr4402
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