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To: patlin; caww
I do not know which post you are referring to, but much to your dismay, Romans was not sent to pagan gentiles, it was sent to out of covenant house of Isra;el that had become as gentiles as was prophesied.

LOL, oh that is rich patlin - and completely devoid of facts or historical support. Read Rom 1:6-7 and Chapter 16 - greeting all of the (former) pagans (now Christians).

Now you begin to ramble on skirting the subject at hand - your misuse of 'believe'. I'm surprised you didn't point to Gen 15:6 to support your claim for Hebrew interpretation of belief.

The Hebrew equivalent from which the Greek was taken is “shama” shaw-mah’

This is not the word used in the Genesis passage patlin. The word used is 'aman which you get correct the second time - except since you failed at Gen 15, it shows a degree of shallowness in your arguement. A closer look at what you say the definition is:

properly to build up or support; to foster as a parent or nurse; figuratively to render (or be) firm or faithful, to trust or believe, to be permanent or quiet; morally to be true or certain; once (in Isa_30:21; by interchange for H541) to go to the right hand: - hence assurance, believe, bring up, establish, + fail, be faithful (of long continuance, stedfast, sure, surely, trusty, verified), nurse, (-ing father), (put), trust, turn to the right.

Further shows your inaccuracy or potential dishonesty in your definition. The above from you represent the Qal and Niphal forms of the verb. Unfortunately or deliberately you left off the Hiphil form - which is the perfect tense of 'aman. Since your 'defintion' above includes strongs numbers, perhaps you should look up the strongs and read further. Niphal tense of 'aman is defined as

1) to stand firm, to trust, to be certain, to believe in
a) stand firm
b) trust, believe

You really need to learn how to use your lexicon patlin to avoid such gross mistakes. For a hebrew view of how they translated it into Greek we read in the LXX -

καὶ ἐπίστευσεν Αβραμ τῷ θεῷ

With ἐπίστευσεν being the word used in Romans, Galatians and James - pisteuō and remarkably the defintions between the CORRECT form of 'aman and pisteuō match nicely.

That is why it is important to find in the word in the Septuagint, then take it back to its Hebrew origin in order to discern which meaning they were using.

Well, I've just shown the shallowness of this claim - based primarly on the misrepresentation of the use of 'aman in context of Gen 15 without having to rely upon LXX. The LXX just adds icing to the cake since it was hebrews who did the translation from hebrew into greek to begin with.

And thus the antisemitism born out of pagan Greek christians continues.

LOL, you claimed the Temple institute was an unbiased source - bzzzzt you even proved yourself wrong with your rant. The fact is, after browsing through their website, there are NONE, ZERO, NADA NT passages cited and even Yah'shua is mentioned ZERO, NADA. In fact they don't even recognize Yah'shua as Messiah. Once again, Temple Institute is biased against Christianity.

BTW - wasn't it the priests and leaders of judiasm of the post Yah'shua era that persecuted and killed the early Christians? Hmmmmmmm

For you to claim that the house of Judah never preserved at all times a copy of the Tanakh in Hebrew without bias & without respect to YHVH only shows your bias to those YHVH chose to preserve HIS WORD.

It really goes to show the weakness of an arguement when you have to lie by claiming I've made the statement above. Go ahead, properly link my comment, I'll wait, but then knowing I didn't make the statement you claimed I did it will be a loooooong wait. So do yourself a favor on that point and stop digging yourself deeper into a hole - it is availiable for all to see your statement is false.

127 posted on 10/17/2011 1:28:30 PM PDT by Godzilla (3-7-77)
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To: Godzilla
G4100 πιστεύω pisteuō pist-yoo'-o From G4102; to have faith (in, upon, or with respect to, a person or thing), that is, credit; by implication to entrust (especially one’s spiritual well being to Christ): - believe (-r), commit (to trust), put in trust with. LXX related word(s) H6004 aman hi.,ni. H8085 shama
128 posted on 10/17/2011 2:30:12 PM PDT by patlin ("Knowledge is a powerful source that is 2nd to none but God" ConstitutionallySpeaking 2011)
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To: Godzilla

one shouldn’t throw stones when one studies in a glass classroom


129 posted on 10/17/2011 2:32:12 PM PDT by patlin ("Knowledge is a powerful source that is 2nd to none but God" ConstitutionallySpeaking 2011)
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To: Godzilla
shema - hear & obey

Deut 5:28 “Then the LORD heard the voice of your words when you spoke to me, and the LORD said to me: ‘I have heard the voice of the words of this people which they have spoken to you. They are right in all that they have spoken. 29 Oh, that they had such a heart in them that they would fear Me and always keep all My commandments, that it might be well with them and with their children forever!

Deut 6 The Greatest Commandment
1 “Now this is the commandment, and these are the statutes and judgments which the LORD your God has commanded to teach you, that you may observe them in the land which you are crossing over to possess, 2 that you may fear the LORD your God, to keep all His statutes and His commandments which I command you, you and your son and your grandson, all the days of your life, and that your days may be prolonged. 3 Therefore hear, O Israel, and be careful to observe it, that it may be well with you, and that you may multiply greatly as the LORD God of your fathers has promised you—‘a land flowing with milk and honey.’[a]
4 “Hear(Shema), O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one![b] 5 You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your strength.
6 “And these words which I command you today shall be in your heart. 7 You shall teach them diligently to your children, and shall talk of them when you sit in your house, when you walk by the way, when you lie down, and when you rise up. 8 You shall bind them as a sign on your hand, and they shall be as frontlets between your eyes. 9 You shall write them on the doorposts of your house and on your gates.

One can learn a lot about the mark of the beast from the Torah so one is fooled in to taking it. Also, what part of forever you do not understand or is it that you do not trust that when YHVH said forever he really meant it?

Mt 5:18 Yes indeed! I tell you that until heaven and earth pass away, not so much as a yud or a stroke will pass from the Torah — not until everything that must happen has happened. [CJB]

Last I checked we were not living in the millennial kingdom thus not all that must happen has happened.

John 5:45 Do not think that I shall accuse you to the Father; there is one who accuses you—Moses, in whom you trust. 46 For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me; for he wrote about Me. 47 But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?”

Thus you are saying that when YHVH had Moses write the word “forever” you do not believe Moses.

130 posted on 10/17/2011 2:45:58 PM PDT by patlin ("Knowledge is a powerful source that is 2nd to none but God" ConstitutionallySpeaking 2011)
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