The last time I saw Swaggart on TV, this album was hot stuff.
It may surprise you to find out that Muslims consider all Christians to be polytheists for the same reason,i.e; that Christians have elevated Jesus to the position of God. The God of the Bible is clearly polytheistic. Witness the baptism of Jesus... You had Jesus standing in the water, The voice of the Father coming down from the heavens declaring Him to be His Son, and the Holy Ghost descending in the form of a dove. As well as countless examples of Jesus praying to His Father and referencing the Holy Spirit.
The Mormon understanding of the personalities of the Godhead were quite commonly understood by all Christians until the 4th century, when the Catholic definition of the Trinity took over.
Indeed, even today, many evangelical Christians, based on their own studies of the Bible have come around to this point of view .... (see Jimmy Swaggart for an example)
The God of the Bible is definately NOT polytheistic, despite your claims:
Consider the following verses, which indicate there is only one God:
Deuteronomy 4:35
Unto thee it was shewed, that thou mightest know that the LORD he is God; there is none else beside him.
Deuteronomy 4:39
The LORD he is God in heaven above, and upon the earth beneath: there is none else.
Deuteronomy 6:4
Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord.
Deuteronomy 32:39
See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me.
1 Kings 18:39
The LORD, he is the God; the LORD, he is the God.
Isaiah 43:10
I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.
Isaiah 44:8
I am the LORD, and there is none else ... There is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else.
Isaiah 45:5-6
I am the Lord, and there is none else, there is no God beside me.
There is no God else beside me ... There is none beside me.
Isaiah 45:21/A>
Isaiah 46:9
I am God, and there is none else: I am God, and there is none like me.
Mark 12:29
The Lord our God is
one Lord.
Mark 12:32
There is one God; and there is none other but he.
John 17:3
That they might know thee the only true God.
Fourth Century? But wasn’t that well into the ‘fallen into apostasy’ that your prophet claimed occurred with the death of the last Apostle? And this Father god that Mormonism claims, was he once a man and had to earn the attributes of godhood before siring the spirit children, the LDS inc jesus and his spirit brother Satan in the ‘pre-existence’? Are you sure this father god your worship is The God? Your own Journal of Discourses states that a council of ‘gods’ appointed this father god you worship to be the god of the Earth and humankind, and that the mormonism jesus had to also earn the attributes of godhood to become a part of the troika of gods for Earth and humankind. Are you sure you worship the same God found identified in The Bible?
So the book of John is mistaken that Jesus was the Word and that the Word Was God ?
It may surprise you to find out that Muslims consider all Christians to be polytheists for the same reason,i.e; that Christians have elevated Jesus to the position of God.
... Sorry, Christians did not “elevate Jesus to the position of God.”
... Sorry, Muslims are wrong again.
“The God of the Bible is clearly polytheistic.”
... Heresy. He is not polytheistic.
“Witness the baptism of Jesus... You had Jesus standing in the water, The voice of the Father coming down from the heavens declaring Him to be His Son, and the Holy Ghost descending in the form of a dove. As well as countless examples of Jesus praying to His Father and referencing the Holy Spirit.”
... This does not make God polytheistic. It makes you a heretic.
“The Mormon understanding of the personalities of the Godhead were quite commonly understood by all Christians until the 4th century, when the Catholic definition of the Trinity took over.”
... Sorry, the great councils codified what was already believed and taught by the Church. They did this because heresies like mormonism (arianism) were attacking the Church.
“Indeed, even today, many evangelical Christians, based on their own studies of the Bible have come around to this point of view .... (see Jimmy Swaggart for an example)”
... You will find heresy in many places. That never makes it true.
Both muslims and mormons are wrong on this very point - because of deliberate misrepresntation of the Trinitarian doctrine plus what the bible actually states.
Witness the baptism of Jesus...
Which does not require polytheism to answer 47.
As well as countless examples of Jesus praying to His Father and referencing the Holy Spirit.
Again, taken to the exclusion of the witness of the rest of the bible - the nature of the Incarnation.
The Mormon understanding of the personalities of the Godhead were quite commonly understood by all Christians until the 4th century, when the Catholic definition of the Trinity took over.
You really haven't done any research past mormon sources have you. The doctrine of the Trinity (by name) occurs as early as the second century in ANF writings. BTW, Athenagoras in AD 177 for example (Plea for the Christians) defined the Trinity in almost the exact same words as Nicea. Same with Theophilus of Antioch in AD 168.
See, mormon 'understanding' of the Godhead is further flawed because they view it through the eyes of smith - and not what the bible ACTUALLY says. Where mormons reference it (when they do) -
Col 2:9 KJV - For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
The greek for "Godhead" is 'theotēs' which is defined as the state of being God (not 'a' god). This is further reinforced by the use of "fulness" (plērōma) which results in the understanding that everything God was present in Jesus - this is not a committee on Kolob 47, but biblical evidence of the understanding of the Trinity at the apostolic level.
Indeed, even today, many evangelical Christians, based on their own studies of the Bible have come around to this point of view .... (see Jimmy Swaggart for an example)
Citations please that evangelicals are becoming polytheistic.
You know, Joseph Smith copied many, many chapters from the prophet Isaiah into the Book of Mormon (italics and all...italic words were words the KJV translators added in the 17th century to words not in original Hebrew text). Because these were word for word, we get the picture that the so-called Mormon "prophets" of lore (and I emphasize Lore as in "myth") trusted the prophet Isaiah down to every word.
Were the God of the Bible "clearly polytheistic" then both those "prophets" of BoM lore -- as well as Smith in the JST -- should have re-edited the book of Isaiah to the following "specs" so that your polytheistic Gods could be superimposed upon Isaiah:
So, I've done you the "courtesy" to have your current or next "prophet" change these verses in the Bible (just like what Joseph Smith thought he had the authority to do) to read as follows:
* "I am the Lord, and there are others; apart from me there are multiples of gods." (A perversion of Is. 45:5)
* "I am the Lord, who has organized all things, who with a council of gods stretched out the heavens, who spread out the earth with my fellow divine family members." (A twisting of Is. 44:24)
* "It is us who made the earth, and created mankind upon it. Our own hands stretched out the heavens; we marshaled their starry hosts." (A pretzel version of Is. 45:12)
* "I am the first, well almost, and I am certainly not the last; there are other gods all around me." (More twisting - this time of Is. 44:6)
*"Did I not proclaim this and foretell it long ago? You are our witnesses. Are there gods beside me? Yes, I know plenty." (Utter perversion of Is. 44:8)
*"Before me generations of gods were formed, and so shall it be evermore happily ever after." (Ah, again, the Mormon "gospel" twisted version of Is. 43:10)
May I "sweetly" challenge Lds to go to the Bible they say they adhere to and meditate day and night upon Isaiah 43, Isaiah 44, and Isaiah 45? Isaiah reminds us, as if the above verses weren't enough, in 45:14: "'Surely God is with you, and there is no other; there is no other god.'"
So are you elevating islam to explain mormonISM?
I’ll let others explain why you are misguided here about the rest of your argument, I do want to say thanks for at least tying to explain your position, so many lds just call people names and claim persecution.
At least 47Samurai, you are a more forthright Mormon. Most Mormons don't want to admit they are polytheists. It's actually refreshing to encounter a Mormon who concedes they are.
Mormons like to make much of the 4th century councils re: the Trinity -- coming several hundred years after the New Testament.
What they don't know is how late in his life Smith feasted upon polytheism.
We really don't find Smith focusing on gods plural until D&C 120:32 (July, 1838) -- less than six years before he died. Five years to the month, he revisited the plurality of gods again in D&C 132:18-20. But this "revelation" was written only to his wife, Emma, to get her to capitulate to accept polygamy in their household. The doctrine of polygamy never went public until 1852.
Therefore, there really wasn't any "traction" for the Mormon teaching of gods plural. Not until June 1844...King Follett sermon times in the same month he died.
Right before his death, Smith preached east of the Nauvoo Temple in a meeting in the grove (June 16, 1844). He makes it clear then that he had failed to lay it clear to his followers his embracement of polygamy -- until that day!
"Now, you know that of late some malicious and corrupt men have sprung up and apostatized from the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and they declare that the Prophet believes in a plurality of Gods, and, lo and behold! we have discovered a very great secret, they cry--'The Prophet says there are many Gods, and this proves that he has fallen.' It has been my intention for a long time to take up this subject and lay it clearly before the people, and show what my faith is in relation to this interesting matter." (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pp. 369-370)
From there he goes on to talk about the plurality of gods.
The comment in bold shows quite plainly how elusive Smith had been up until then in allowing his polytheism to be prominently taught. Some of those closest to him heard him say it; and between polytheism and polygamy, some of them apostatized. They exposed him; and Smith knew he couldn't duck the matter any longer.
So here he also began teaching that Mormons were to learn how to become gods themselves (June 1844 was a first in that topical department). In fact, it was such a first, that Mormons still to this very day have no canonized "revelations" from their gods that they can become gods. Not in the Book of Mormon. Not in the D&C. Not in the Pearl of Great Price. All they can do is try to hum along on that via passages like Ps. 82 and the word "heirs" in the New Testament.
No wonder the Lone God of the heavens removed His protection of Smith the very month he taught this to the Mormons! (I hear He's not a very big fan of idolatry!)
The last time I saw Swaggart on TV, this album was hot stuff.
There are many many "evangeicals" who are embracing polytheism. They are all sadly deluded and deluding.