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To: markomalley
If he is not allowed to continue his work with Priests for Life, Fr. Pavone explained that he is looking into the possibility of being incardinated into a different diocese.

Your ellipses are missing predicates. A priest being incardinated into another diocese is completely functioning within the mechanism, structure and authority of the Church. Since he cannot be incardinated in another diocese without permission of rightful Church authorities, their is no question of breaking away. It is no different than changing orders when the one you are in goes awry, or even like asking for a transfer in another division within a large company.

It is not to be done lightly, but there is no disobedience about it. Fr. Pavone's description of the correspondence was done without vitriol, rancor or accusation. After the 100 times as huge Catholic Campaign for Human Development (which had been working AGAINST Catholic teaching for many years, after an Alinsky infiltration) scandals, to focus on Fr. Pavone's operation in this manner seems like bad faith.
9 posted on 09/15/2011 6:10:13 PM PDT by Dr. Sivana (It's fun to play with your vision, but don't ever play with your eyes.-1970's PSA)
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To: Dr. Sivana

Exactly.

It seems to me that the office no longer works well within the original structure.

Having an archbishop specifically assigned to them as in charge of a religious order would make the most sense to me.

This is one way to see that change happen.

Blessings to Fr. Pavone. He’s a hero to me, but I made a vow to the Church and I will not go back on that vow.


11 posted on 09/15/2011 6:54:52 PM PDT by BenKenobi (Honkeys for Herman! “10 percent is enough for God; 9 percent is enough for government")
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To: Dr. Sivana; Salvation
Your ellipses are missing predicates. A priest being incardinated into another diocese is completely functioning within the mechanism, structure and authority of the Church. Since he cannot be incardinated in another diocese without permission of rightful Church authorities, their is no question of breaking away. It is no different than changing orders when the one you are in goes awry, or even like asking for a transfer in another division within a large company.

The ellipses were used to show the most generic structure of what he said.

That generic structure is: "If I don't get my way, I will (fill in the blank)"

"If you don't eat your meat, you don't get dessert"

"If you don't give me that toy, I'll throw a tantrum in public"

"If you don't give me a raise, I'll find a different job"

And so on.

It is a threat designed to put the threatened person over a barrel (by promising an unpleasant outcome) if he/she doesn't comply with the demand.

That is not humble obedience. That is petulance.


Having said the above, this was not listed as a quote. So this could be the interpretation of the CNA journalist and not the actual verbiage of Father Pavone.


Priests, prudent cooperators with the Episcopal order,(72*) its aid and instrument, called to serve the people of God, constitute one priesthood (73*) with their bishop although bound by a diversity of duties. Associated with their bishop in a spirit of trust and generosity, they make him present in a certain sense in the individual local congregations, and take upon themselves, as far as they are able, his duties and the burden of his care, and discharge them with a daily interest. And as they sanctify and govern under the bishop's authority, that part of the Lord's flock entrusted to them they make the universal Church visible in their own locality and bring an efficacious assistance to the building up of the whole body of Christ.(184) intent always upon the welfare of God's children, they must strive to lend their effort to the pastoral work of the whole diocese, and even of the entire Church. On account of this sharing in their priesthood and mission, let priests sincerely look upon the bishop as their father and reverently obey him. And let the bishop regard his priests as his co-workers and as sons and friends, just as Christ called His disciples now not servants but friends.(185) All priests, both diocesan and religious, by reason of Orders and ministry, fit into this body of bishops and priests, and serve the good of the whole Church according to their vocation and the grace given to them.

Lumen Gentium, 23

Think of the persecutions of Padre Pio: despite years of unjust persecution, he humbly obeyed. He did not issue public statements defending himself. He did not threaten to split off from the Capuchins if he didn't get his way.

Then think of the fruits of his humility in the long-term.


Look, I don't know if the bishop is right or wrong with the facts here. And I have been a supporter of PFL and Fr Pavone for years, both with prayers and finances (when possible). And he is nominally being obedient: he was ordered to return to his diocese and he has done so. However...a statement of "if I don't get my way, I will do (blank)" is not the statement of reverent, humble, filial obedience. It is a response of ego and not humility. And it is of concern.

And founding a active religious institute like the Sisters for Life is a really good idea and one I would support.

But the If you don't (fill in the blank), I will (fill in the blank) sounds like an expression of ego rather than one of humility. It sounds like an approach of the statement "non serviam." And that is not a good statement.

IMHO, Fr Pavone would be better served by humility in public (and continuing his actions in private). And we, as laity, should keep the situation in our prayers. We don't know all the facts at the fingertips of his Ordinary.

And remember the words of St Ignatius of Antioch:

See that you all follow the bishop, even as Jesus Christ does the Father...Let no man do anything connected with the Church without the bishop...Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude [of the people] also be; even as, wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church...It is well to reverence both God and the bishop. He who honours the bishop has been honoured by God; he who does anything without the knowledge of the bishop, does [in reality] serve the devil.

Letter to the Smyrnaeans, 8-9


25 posted on 09/16/2011 3:01:37 AM PDT by markomalley (Nothing emboldens the wicked so greatly as the lack of courage on the part of the good-Pope Leo XIII)
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