And you reply:
“You conclude that based on what my post, precisely?”
Well, let's see.(again I won't be using the Greek fonts).
You wrote:
“Christ simply abolished the need for Hebrew priests, not just for sacrifices by them. This is why HIEREUS is only used for Christian priests to underscore their type being the Hebrew priests”
Consider Matthew 26:3. The chief priests (archeireus) and ancients, elders (prebyteros) are gathered together in the courtyard of the high priest (archiereus).
The presbyteros here are not Christian priests, nor are they Jewish priests, they are, as both Catholic and Protestant translators translate, elders, older men of the community.
Matthew says the hiereus are Jewish priests and the presbyteros are the the elders, older men of the community, or ancients as the DRV puts it.
Acts 2:17, 1 Tim 5:1,17,19 and Titus 2:2 uses the term presbyteros(or a form) and it is translated as elder, older man by most translations including the DRV but for some reason the DRV translates 1 Tim. 5:17,19 as “priest”.
You say:
“The gross error is not in using “elder” but uin not recognizing Catrholic priesthood in that “elder”. As it is, “priest” derives from PRESBYTEROS and is the time-honored way to describe the person in the role of the PREBYTEROS of the First Church”
This may be good Catholic theology but as above it is not supported by the use of the term in the Scriptures and even Catholic translators recognize this.
You wrote:
“You know that how about Melchisedech? You could make the argument that they were apostles. But apostles in turn ordained priests (see again Timothy and Titus).”
1 Tim 4:14 uses the term “presbyteriou” or presbytery and as any lexicon will attest means an elder, older man (figuratively and spiritually) who leads the congregation not a “priesthood”.
Who else is a priest after the manner of Mechizedek? Only he is so named. Only to him is the oath applied. The order of Melchizedek has only one member, Christ. See Hebrews.
“However, the Catholic teaching is that in essence, Christ IS the only priest. When a ministerial priest receives an ordination, — for example, when priests were ordained by Titus, — they did not become, like levitical priests, distinct and multiple priests, but rather they received the grace to stand in for Christ, — become another Christ in the sacramental sense, — in their sacramental and liturgical function: “As the Father hath sent me, I also send you” (John 20:21).”
Yes, that may be Catholic teaching, belief and theology but that is reading into the Scriptures what isn't found there.
You argue that since “priest” is derived from presbyteros when prebyteros is used it means “priest”. The DRV uses priest or priesthood while the NAB uses elder for presbyteros.
How a word is translated reflects the view of the translators about how that word was used.
You defined presbyteros as priests because they were appointed, ordained and because they performed sacraments but again that a reverse exegesis since there is no indication that an older man or elder, prebyteros could not grease with oil an ailing person and offer prayer over them or perform similar acts.
Essentially you're saying since only a priest could do these sort of acts everyone who did them was a priest in a fine example of circular reasoning.
You say:
“Bias is to have functioning priests for centuries and still translate “elder”
But the DRV has been translating presbyteros as “ancient”, “older man, elder” and then immediately within the same context translate as “priest”, something the NAB, NJB does not do in these same verses.
The Christian church cannot be retro-fitted with priests by mistranslation and redefining the presbyteros.
You haven’t examined the Greek you claimed to be able to read. Two...You seem just as unfamiliar with the Scriptures
“You conclude that based on what my post, precisely?”
You still have to ask?
That "πρεσβυτερος" is used at times to indicate a Jewish (non-Christian) elder and "ιερευς" -- a Christian priest (and especially Christ) is very true.
Acts 2:17, 1 Tim 5:1,17,19 and Titus 2:2 uses the term presbyteros(or a form) and it is translated as elder, older man by most translations including the DRV but for some reason the DRV translates 1 Tim. 5:17,19 as “priest”.
Acts 2:17 is an imprecise quote from Joel, so it would be silly to translate "πρεσβυτερος" (indeed used in the Septuagint) as "priest".
1 Tim 5:1 refers to old people of both sexes (the next verse says πρεσβυτερας, feminine), so again the contexts commands to translate accordingly. Note that Douay carefully avoids "elder" in both verses 1 and 2 because the context speaks of the honor due to age rather than status.
In 1 Tim 5:17 "πρεσβυτεροι" refers to work of "ruling" (προεστωτες)and "the word and doctrine", so clearly we are talking of clergy and not simply men of old age or authority.
Titus 2:1-6 speaks of old men and women, and then of the young men and women, so, similar to 1 Tim 5:1 and for the same reasons, "priests" would not be a proper translation.
Thiose examples do show that the terminology was unsettled, and "πρεσβυτερος" as strictly "priest" was at the time a neologism. They also do show that Douay is the only proper translation that looks into context, and the Protestant translations are all garbage.
This may be good Catholic theology but as above it is not supported by the use of the term in the Scriptures
I showed that "πρεσβυτερος" should be translated as "priest" where douay translates it as "priest"; as to the derivation of "PRiEST" from "PRESbyTer" it is not theology but etymology.
Who else is a priest after the manner of Mechizedek? Only he is so named. Only to him is the oath applied.
But Christ said "I send you like my Father sent me", "He that heareth you, heareth me" and -- speaking of Protestantism -- "he that despiseth you, despiseth me; and he that despiseth me, despiseth him that sent me", so uniquely His Priesthood in the order of Melchisedech transfers to all He sends.
there is no indication that an older man or elder, prebyteros could not grease with oil an ailing person and offer prayer over them or perform similar acts.
Older men probably did so since the world began but James 5:14 specifically says to bring "τους πρεσβυτερους της εκκλησιας (of the Church)" and not use the services of any other "old man".