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To: CynicalBear; boatbums
What the Catholics fail to mention is that it was the Catholics who originally convicted Servetus but he escaped only to have Calvin have him arrested again when he recognized him at one of his sermons. So if the Catholics use that line they are denying the Catholic involvement and really only set a trap for themselves.
"....That Jesus, surnamed Christ, was not a Hypostasis but a human being is taught both by the early Fathers and in Scriptures, taken in their literal sense, and is indicated by the miracles he wrought. He, and not the Word, is also the miraculously born Son of God in fleshly form, as the Scriptures teach - not a hypostasis, but an actual Son. The Holy Spirit as a third person of the Godhead is unknown in Scripture. It is not a separate being, but an activity of God himself. The doctrine of the Trinity can be neither established by logic nor proved from Scriptures, and is in fact inconceivable."
-- Quotation from Michael Servetus, in the thread On the Errors of the Trinity

"....For many, Servetus is the ultimate example of the intolerance and cruelty of Calvin. I have no desire to try to justify the persecution or execution of heretics, but in fairness to Calvin the Servetus episode must be seen in historical context. Servetus denied the doctrine of the Trinity, and that was a capital crime almost everywhere in Europe. When Servetus came to Geneva, he had already been sentenced to death in France....Almost all Europeans in Calvin's day believed that heresy was as dangerous as the plague and that civil governments had the obligation to eradicate it....
-- from the thread Man of His Time for All Times: W. Robert Godfrey paints portrait of Calvin as pilgrim and pastor
....Sufficient evidence was found that the "Restitution" had been printed in Vienne; extracts were made from it to prove the heresies contained therein. The civil court, without waiting for the judgment of the spiritual tribunal (which was not given until six months afterwards), sentenced Servetus on the 17th of June, for heretical doctrines, for violation of the royal ordinances, and for escape from the royal prison, to pay a fine of one thousand livres tournois to the Dauphin, to be carried in a cart, together with his books, on a market-day through the principal streets to the place of execution, and to be burnt alive by a slow fire.

On the same day he was burnt in effigy, together with the five bales of his book, which had been consigned to Merrin at Lyons and brought back to Vienne.
-- from Phillip Schaff's History of the Christian Church,
CHAPTER XVI: SERVETUS: HIS LIFE. OPINIONS, TRIAL, AND EXECUTION,
section 148: The Trial and Condemnation of Servetus at Vienne.


2,305 posted on 09/09/2011 9:11:47 AM PDT by Alex Murphy (Posting news feeds, making eyes bleed: he's hated on seven continents)
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To: Alex Murphy
>>I have no desire to try to justify the persecution or execution of heretics<<

Then you use three paragraphs to do just that. Historical context doesn’t stand with those who claim to follow Christ. No where in the New Testament is the execution of even a heretic justified. The very fact that those executions were practiced and even decreed by the Catholic Church tells me the sincerity of following Christ. The question arises that if one is filled with the Holy Spirit can a policy like that even be allowed to exist in the church being completely contrary to the New Testament.

2,347 posted on 09/09/2011 11:19:42 AM PDT by CynicalBear
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To: Alex Murphy; CynicalBear; boatbums
What the Catholics fail to mention is that it was the Catholics who originally convicted Servetus...

The civil court, without waiting for the judgment of the spiritual tribunal (which was not given until six months afterwards), sentenced Servetus on the 17th of June...

Thank you, Alex, for showing the untruth of CB's statement. Schaff is definitely not a Catholic sympathizer, so for him to say this as clearly as he did is a pretty good indicator of truth.

2,395 posted on 09/09/2011 5:11:24 PM PDT by MarkBsnr (I would not believe in the Gospel, if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
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