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I have no desire to make this another Saturday nite in the War Zone with Catholics VS Protestants. Perhaps you enjoy this as an opportunity to tell us how "dishonest" we are or that we are all "idiots" because we don't genuflect to your Pope.

This is deflecting the issue. The issue is that you guys are all defending each other while trying to make the rather plainly written Catechism seem like it means other than it means. If I hear a recant, then I will take it as a civilized Christian.

If you seriously think that Allah is in any way the same as Jehovah, you have not apparently bothered to read the Koran's description of him. Here's a hint: Allah is not the Creator. Allah is not a Trinity. Jesus is NOT the son of Allah.

I have read the Koran and have a copy. Here's an even bigger hint: the Jewish OT God is not a Trinity either. He is monotheistic in the exact sense, as is Allah. Islam treats Jesus as holy. Judaism does not.

There's more than enough to convince an honest Christian that we do NOT worship the same God as Muslims.

Perhaps you do not realize just how far Christians have taken OT Scripture in meaning from the original Jewish meaning. We do not know if the Council of Jamnia actually existed, but if it didn't, then there certainly was an equivalent. Christianity departs from Judaism to the same degree that Joseph Smith and the LDS departed from Christianity. If you don't believe me, there are plenty of Jews on FR. Ask them. Start a thread and ask for information.

I know it must be difficult to accept that your very own Catechism, written by your magesterium, can contain errors. Those who desire truth will be rewarded by the source and giver of all truth. Those who blindly follow a tradition do not have the same confidence.

We all have the choice. We can follow the traditions of Christ as given to us by the Apostles and their successors. Or we can follow the tradition of the god in the mirror. Your choice and mine. To be made individually.

Please leave with this thought. I do not say that the Islamic Allah is the same as Jehovah or the Christian God the Father. I will say that semi pagan Mohammedans do trace their religious roots back to Abraham. As do we. Nobody else does. We say that they have a glimpse of God and worship Him very imperfectly, as opposed to, say, the Bushmen of the Kalahari, or the Marxists, or ...

I am jumping in late, but your statement: Here’s an even bigger hint: the Jewish OT God is not a Trinity either. Strikes me as in need of fleshing out. Beyond the Christian claim to the OT, did not our Lord point out Psalm 110 in the Gospels?

We all have the choice. We can follow the traditions of Christ as given to us by the Apostles and their successors. Or we can follow the tradition of the god in the mirror. Your choice and mine. To be made individually.

Yes, Markbsnr, we DO have a choice and that choice is not, as you expressed, between what Almighty God has revealed through his Son and the Apostles or our own imagined god. Any person who claims the Christian faith MUST hold to what the Holy Bible says because it is the revelation from God. Through the Holy Spirit, holy men of God spoke as he moved them and what God has preserved for us is our authority. We cannot rely on the traditions of fallible men but only upon what has been taught that the authority of Scripture proves.

I don't blame you for wanting to deflect the point about the glaring error in your Catechism regarding the Muslim religion and Christianity worshipping the same god. According to the Catechism, 'together with us (Catholics) they (Muslims) adore the one, merciful God.' Pope John Paul II repeats this statement even more clearly. Addressing Muslim youths, the Pope said::

We believe in the same God, the one and only God, the living God, the God who creates worlds and brings creatures to their perfection' (What Dialogue Means for Catholics and Muslims, US Conference of Catholic Bishops, http://www.usccb.org/seia/brunett.htm).

Dr Robert Reymond comments on the odd stand of Roman Catholicism on Islam:

I should note in passing that Islam’s doctrinal hostility to Biblical Christianity apparently does not bother the Roman Catholic Church, for Rome declared in its 1994 Catechism of the Catholic Church (paragraph 841) that Muslims are included within God’s plan of salvation because they 'acknowledge the Creator,...profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with [Christians]...adore the one merciful God [Muslims and Christians hardly 'adore' the same 'one merciful God'].' Never mind that Islam’s Allah is not the triune God of the Old and New Testaments; never mind that Muslims think our Trinity is made up of God, a human Jesus, and Mary his mother, the last two of whom we blasphemously worship along with God; never mind that they deny that Jesus Christ is the divine Son of God and that he died on a cross a sacrificial death for his people’s sin and rose again because of their justification; never mind that Muslims believe that Christians are idolaters because we worship Christ who they contend was simply a human Messiah and a human prophet; never mind that they see no need for Christ’s substitutionary atonement or for that matter any substitutionary atonement at all. According to Rome’s teaching, in spite of their unbelief, Muslims are still salvifically related to the People of God and may go to Heaven as Muslims, all of which shows how serious is Roman Catholicism’s departure from Christianity (Reymond, R. What’s Wrong with Islam?).

From: http://www.justforcatholics.org/islam.htm

The Christian response to Muslims should be twofold. Firstly, we must separate ourselves from Islam and clearly state that it is a false religion. 'Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. If anyone comes to you and does not bring this doctrine, do not receive him into your house nor greet him; for he who greets him shares in his evil deeds' (2 John 9-11). Christians do not have any ecumenical relationship with Muslims. We cannot participate in their idolatry by saying that we worship the same God. On the contrary, we must warn them that since they do not abide in the doctrine of Christ, they do not have God.

Secondly, we have an evangelistic responsibility towards Muslims. They have been indoctrinated against the Son of God. We must proclaim Jesus, the Son of God, the Lord from Heaven, the Saviour of the World. We must proclaim that he died for our sins according to the Scriptures, that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the Scriptures. This is our message to Muslims, and to the rest of the world, 'He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him' (John 3:36).

Here's an even bigger hint: the Jewish OT God is not a Trinity either. He is monotheistic in the exact sense, as is Allah. Islam treats Jesus as holy. Judaism does not.

Wrong again, Mark. The Trinity is in the OT. Read the Gospels and see where it is constantly saying that Jesus fulfilled prophecy.

Isaiah 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign. Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

Isaiah 9:2-7 2The people who walked in darkness have seen a great light; those who dwelt in a land of deep darkness, on them has light shined.
3 You have multiplied the nation; you have increased its joy; they rejoice before you as with joy at the harvest, as they are glad when they divide the spoil.
4 For the yoke of his burden, and the staff for his shoulder, the rod of his oppressor, you have broken as on the day of Midian.
5 For every boot of the tramping warrior in battle tumult and every garment rolled in blood will be burned as fuel for the fire.
6 For to us a child is born, to us a son is given; and the government shall be upon his shoulder, and his name shall be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
7Of the increase of his government and of peace there will be no end, on the throne of David and over his kingdom, to establish it and to uphold it with justice and with righteousness from this time forth and forevermore. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will do this.

Psalm 139:7 Where shall I go from your Spirit?Or where shall I flee from your presence?

Psalm 143:10 Teach me to do your will,for you are my God! Let your good Spirit lead me on level ground!

And last but not least, look at that. "Holy Spirit". Right there, specifically spelled out.

Psalm 51:11 Cast me not away from your presence,and take not your Holy Spirit from me.

Isaiah 63:10-12 10 But they rebelled and grieved his Holy Spirit; therefore he turned to be their enemy, and himself fought against them. 11Then he remembered the days of old, of Moses and his people. Where is he who brought them up out of the sea with the shepherds of his flock? Where is he who put in the midst of them his Holy Spirit, 12who caused his glorious arm to go at the right hand of Moses, who divided the waters before them to make for himself an everlasting name,

I have read the Koran and have a copy. Here's an even bigger hint: the Jewish OT God is not a Trinity either. He is monotheistic in the exact sense, as is Allah. Islam treats Jesus as holy. Judaism does not.

A little over a year ago, you posted your belief that the Trinity could not found in the Synoptic Gospels, that the Apostle Paul "definitely" did not subscribe to a Nicene Trinitarian view, and that only "some" evidence for a Triune God could be found within John's Gospel. Only one apostle could be considered Trinitarian?

At least one Catholic FReeper has posted that they do not trust any doctrine not found expressed within the Synoptic Gospels. You seem to be making some cultists' case that the Council of Nicea made up the doctrine of the Trinity out of whole cloth.