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To: MarkBsnr; metmom
>>Show me where Trinity is found in Scripture, even from Jesus Himself?<<

1 John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

John 10:30 I and my Father are one.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 1:14 And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.

>>If you hold to Trinitarian doctrine, you must hold to Mother of God.<<

No you don’t. “Mother of God” is a “doctrine of man”.

1,335 posted on 09/06/2011 7:07:35 PM PDT by CynicalBear
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To: CynicalBear

The Trinity is demanded and warranted, as you cannot have Jesus being explicit and implicitly referred to as God (http://peacebyjesus.witnesstoday.org/DEITYofCHRIST.html), which the Holy Spirit is as, though less substantively, (Job. 33:4; Acts 5:4) with all 3 uniquely being invoked together, Mt. 28:19; 2Cor. 13:14) without the Bible contradicting itself, while the evidence supports all three being God, being of the same Divine nature, eternally preexistent with uniquely Divine attributes, though with a positional order. (Jn. 14:26; 16:13; 1Cor. 11:3; 15:27,28)


1,336 posted on 09/06/2011 7:21:27 PM PDT by daniel1212 (Our sinful deeds condemn us, but Christ's death and resurrection gains salvation. Repent +Believe)
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To: CynicalBear

The Trinity is demanded and warranted, as you cannot have Jesus being explicit and implicitly referred to as God (http://peacebyjesus.witnesstoday.org/DEITYofCHRIST.html), which the Holy Spirit is as, though less substantively, (Job. 33:4; Acts 5:4) with all 3 uniquely being invoked together, Mt. 28:19; 2Cor. 13:14) without the Bible contradicting itself, while the evidence supports all three being God, being of the same Divine nature, eternally preexistent with uniquely Divine attributes, though with a positional order. (Jn. 14:26; 16:13; 1Cor. 11:3; 15:27,28)


1,337 posted on 09/06/2011 7:21:36 PM PDT by daniel1212 (Our sinful deeds condemn us, but Christ's death and resurrection gains salvation. Repent +Believe)
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To: CynicalBear; 1000 silverlings; Alex Murphy; bkaycee; blue-duncan; boatbums; caww; ...
This is ludicrous. The NT is filled with references to the Holy Spirit in conjunction with mention of the Father and Jesus. All anyone has to do is a keyword search of the word *Spirit* and they're get every reference that there is and can go through it themselves.

What appears to be happening here is that Catholics want us to believe the doctrine of the Trinity not because Scripture is chock full of references to the members of the Godhead, but rather because the Catholic church (allegedly) formally came up with the doctrine. So they want us to take it on the RCC authority, and not the authority of Scripture.

Matthew 12:15-18 15Jesus, aware of this, withdrew from there. And many followed him, and he healed them all 16and ordered them not to make him known. 17 This was to fulfill what was spoken by the prophet Isaiah: 18 "Behold, my servant whom I have chosen, my beloved with whom my soul is well pleased. I will put my Spirit upon him, and he will proclaim justice to the Gentiles.

Matthew 12:25-3225 Knowing their thoughts, he said to them, "Every kingdom divided against itself is laid waste, and no city or house divided against itself will stand. 26And if Satan casts out Satan, he is divided against himself. How then will his kingdom stand? 27And if I cast out demons by Beelzebul, by whom do your sons cast them out? Therefore they will be your judges. 28But if it is by the Spirit of God that I cast out demons, then the kingdom of God has come upon you. 29Or how can someone enter a strong man’s house and plunder his goods, unless he first binds the strong man? Then indeed he may plunder his house. 30 Whoever is not with me is against me, and whoever does not gather with me scatters. 31 Therefore I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven people, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. 32And whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.

Luke 3:21-23 21Now when all the people were baptized, and when Jesus also had been baptized and was praying, the heavens were opened, 22and the Holy Spirit descended on him in bodily form, like a dove; and a voice came from heaven, "You are my beloved Son; with you I am well pleased."

John 15:26 "But when the Helper comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth, who proceeds from the Father, he will bear witness about me.

Acts 7:55 But he, full of the Holy Spirit, gazed into heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God.

1,344 posted on 09/06/2011 8:18:25 PM PDT by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore, & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: CynicalBear
>>Show me where Trinity is found in Scripture, even from Jesus Himself?<<

1 John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

Applause. This is the most Trinitarian verse in the Bible. The trouble is that it does not exist in most of the existing Greek manuscripts, and is called the Comma Johanneum. The baptismal formula in Matthew 28 was also a late addition. However, that is what we have, and I will accept them based upon the Church's acceptance of them. Your acceptance is also based upon the Church's acceptance of them as well, I will note.

Note that the term "these three are one" can mean a lot of things in Koine Greek, normally something along the lines of 'one in purpose' or 'joined in a common goal'. Aside from this you have posted nothing that even suggests Trinity.

I have often said that if it were not for the writings ascribed to John, it would be impossible to establish any sort of agreement about the Trinity. The Synoptic Gospels, Paul, and to some extent John, describes Jesus as either a subordinate God, or as a super David (which the Jews are still looking for).

>>If you hold to Trinitarian doctrine, you must hold to Mother of God.<<

No you don’t. “Mother of God” is a “doctrine of man”.

If one is, then the other is as well. Both on equal amounts of evidence. Do you expect that you have greater insight than a Church Council of bishops?

1,467 posted on 09/07/2011 4:46:57 AM PDT by MarkBsnr (I would not believe in the Gospel, if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move m to do so.)
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