Yet more childish debate, ignore what has been argued and present a new argument. It’s distraction pure and simple meant to deflect from the reality that one has been bested and now wishes to move the goal post. But, I am more than willing and somewhat able to go down this road with you.
I will concede beforehand that Scripture does not specifically say that Mary was assumed into heaven body and soul. Not a hard concession as Scripture does not record her death. Does that mean she did not die? Scripture does not record the death of most of the Apostles. Did they not die?
Absence in Scripture does not mean something did not happen. Can we agree on that? Sure, I knew we could.
Scripture, especially the NT is not an exhaustive history of the Christian faith. It is limited to the events and theology of its times. That does not mean it isn’t timeless or that we, 2000 years removed, cannot and do not rely on it as a foundation of our faith.
The Gospels, the Synoptic ones specifically, were written to prove one thing; that Jesus was the Son of God, that He lived, died and was resurrected for our redemption and salvation. Once it is proved that Jesus is the Messiah, the Apostles then claimed authority to teach His Good News and do as Jesus bid them, forgive sins, bind and loose, and making disciples and baptizing believers.
Acts is strictly the history of the beginning of the Church. It does not seek to record the entire history of the Church as that would mean it is an ongoing work.
But, we see how the first ministry is established, the first council and the first martyrs for the faith. We learn the rudimentary outline of the church, the community of believers and how they lived the faith.
The epistles are written to those who believe. They are theological instructions and practical advise for the church and individual believers. They were often written to remind those who already believe what they believe and why. From the very beginning, people got it wrong and needed correction. From the beginning people wavered and needed to be strengthened. From the beginning, people need to hear how a live in Christ is lived.
Those needs did not end with the Apostles and though we can rely on the Truth of Scripture and trust that
, “All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.” 2 Timothy 3:16-17
not all theological questions and are found or answered specifically within it.
For instance, Scripture does not specifically define the doctrine of the Trinity or even use the word Trinity. That doctrine is gleaned from Scripture, implicitly found in the words of Jesus and then the Apostles. But, should I ask you to give me the exact book and verse whereby the Trinity is found in Scripture, you could not do so. All you can do is give me Scripture that supports the doctrine and thus say with conviction that the doctrine of the Trinity does not contradict Scripture.
Now on even that basic tenet, there is disagreement and those who disagree can point to what they believe supports their position that there is but one God, not one God in three persons which are the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. They will argue that the Father is the only God, that Jesus, though His son was not God, and the Holy Spirit is not God but the breath or essence of God sent out to do His will.
Scripture does not speak specifically on the two natures of Jesus as fully man and fully God. And many heresies arose after the written Scripture regarding Jesus.
In both instances, even after hundreds of years of study and debate and prayer, no one can fully and adequately explain it. The magnitude of those two things are beyond our human limitations to fully comprehend. We take it on faith don’t we?
If one does not know the exegesis accepted by all Christians, one might be swayed by others to different beliefs. That is how people become Mormons, JW, Unitarians and other more obscure sects or cults.
I say all of this as a preliminary to the coming debate over the two theological points you raised in your deflection.
As I said, I can go down this path and give you Scriptures which I believe support the Church’s teachings on those doctrines.
If you can accept and thus believe those supportive Scriptures, you are Catholic.
If you do not, you are protestant.
It becomes a matter of trust and authority. I must admit that I do not come to those beliefs on my own but have been taught them by the Church, who through hundreds of years has pondered such things and made its declaration regarding them. Greater minds than mine have been occupied with these things and I do not imagine myself an equal to them.
So, I do as we are told to do in Scripture. I search Scripture to determine if what they say is true. I am peaceful in my faith that it is Truth and grateful that God has made that Truth known to me through His Church.
Protestants reject the authority of the Church to make such doctrinal declarations as well as reject the Scriptural support for them out of hand. It is the way they have been brought up in the faith for the most part, and many Catholics have been lured away due to their own ignorance of history and theology.
I do not hold this against them. I respect that they have not been steeped in Catholicism but have been steeped in Protestantism. I can appreciate what they do believe and as the Church does, consider them brothers and sisters in Christ.
I apologize for the length of this, but felt that groundwork needed to be laid before we begin this journey together. You may vehemently reject my interpretation and understanding of Scripture and I can accept that, but unless and until you can admit that your own interpretation is a product of the same education as mine we can have no debate, only an argument.
What do I mean by our education? I mean that your faith has been handed on to you by someone else. You have come to your understanding through the exegesis of others and you do as I do which is to test what these others say to see if it is supported by Scripture. You either then accept or reject those teachings. Which makes your faith education no different than mine, we just have chosen to accept a different authority.
If you claim Scripture alone as your sole and final authority”, you have made an extra Biblical claim as no where does Scripture make that claim for itself. The claim itself is a bit disingenuous since no one has ever picked up a Bible and read it free from the influence of others. If you claim the Holy Spirit is your inspiration and guide, you make the same claim as the Church.
So, do you still want to do this? I have to work today and the rest of the week, so my posts will have to be sporadic and spread out over time, but hey, if you’re game so am I.
That reads like a long weasel worded Great Grope, to me.
A doctrine as central to the RCC as the doctrines surrounding Mary is not in scripture and it’s understandable? Are you kidding me?
Is there scripture showing Jesus as God and also as man? Of course there is.
Was Jesus God?
The book of Hebrews gives us this "But of the Son He says, 'Thy throne, O God, is forever and ever". Thomas testifies that He is God: John 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My LORD and my God. Then look at other parts of scripture testifying to the fact that Jesus is truly God and has all the attributes of God. Colossians 1:16, John 1:1, John 8:58, Matthew 28:18, Revelation 1:8. There are specific texts telling us that Jesus is indeed God.
Was Jesus also man in the flesh?
1 John 4:2 2 By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, 2 John 7 For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who do not confess the coming of Jesus Christ in the flesh. Such a one is the deceiver and the antichrist. He was born “under the Law” as in born in the flesh. Galatians 4:4 But when the fullness of time had come, God sent forth his Son, born of woman, born under the law.
>>We take it on faith don’t we?<<
We believe it because we are told in scripture as I have just showed you.
>>If one does not know the exegesis accepted by all Christians, one might be swayed by others to different beliefs. That is how people become Mormons, JW, Unitarians and other more obscure sects or cults.<<
You mean like cults teaching something that we are not able to “search the scriptures to see if is true”? You mean like a guy named Smith saying he heard from God and teaches something that isn’t in the Bible or like the Pope teaching Mary was assumed into heaven which isn’t in the Bible?
>>As I said, I can go down this path and give you Scriptures which I believe support the Church’s teachings on those doctrines.<<
Then do it.