Posted on 09/02/2011 9:07:47 AM PDT by marshmallow
He condemned the Pharisees for using tradition for their own aggrandizement and Jewish children who used tradition to get out of their obligations to their parents.
That is the tradition Jesus condemned and rightly so.
You should know that.
Neither am I nor is this article saying such. I don't think anyone can deny that there was allegory, word pictures and forshadows of the work of the Savior, Jesus Christ, in the Old Testament and in the life of the first century Jewish people.
The Word of God is perfect. It is complete from beginning to end, He has given us everything we need from Him to know what He desires us to know. We have the luxury to have the COMPLETE Word of God. And we can flip through His word to compare any Scripture with any other Scripture in order to study and know His desires for us.
When the Book of Revelation ends with "For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall addunto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.
God's Word to mankind is finished with these words. There are no more prophecies, or traditions, or doctrines to be invented. It is done. He has given us His Book of Prophecy for mankind. His Word.
But of course, it wasn't always clearly laid out for us. There was a place for tradition and handed down stories. But as Scripture grew, and more and more of God's Plan was revealed through His word, the need for tradition vanished. Unless it was proven by Scripture to be true, it held no value to either God or man.
Some of us are so lazy and so spoiled. We do not feel the need to study God's word or compare Scripture to Scripture. Just follow traditions, they must be correct. or else why would they be called traditions? Satan's greatest hoax is to get people to believe they do not need God's word to show them truth. They can depend on others to tell them what God said/meant to say. They can depend on traditions as equal to God's word. And the Perfect Word of God sits on the bookshelf, gathering dust.
Although baptism and ritualistic cleansing was practiced long before John the Baptist, the it was not commanded until Acts 10:48.
So, you deny that your first posting about this named Moody as where this imaginary "professor" came from? Remember, blue-duncan commented that he stood by Moody's and stated that they would not have permitted such a professor to teach like that?
I have never seen you evidence any love for Christ.
I guess if "love for Christ" can only possibly be held by Catholics, then you never WILL see it. However, it is Jesus who knows my heart and he's the one who really matters.
The Word of God is perfect. It is complete from beginning to end, He has given us everything we need from Him to know what He desires us to know. We have the luxury to have the COMPLETE Word of God. And we can flip through His word to compare any Scripture with any other Scripture in order to study and know His desires for us.
When the Book of Revelation ends with "For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall addunto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.
God's Word to mankind is finished with these words. There are no more prophecies, or traditions, or doctrines to be invented. It is done. He has given us His Book of Prophecy for mankind. His Word.
But of course, it wasn't always clearly laid out for us. There was a place for tradition and handed down stories. But as Scripture grew, and more and more of God's Plan was revealed through His word, the need for tradition vanished. Unless it was proven by Scripture to be true, it held no value to either God or man.
Some of us are so lazy and so spoiled. We do not feel the need to study God's word or compare Scripture to Scripture. Just follow traditions, they must be correct. or else why would they be called traditions? Satan's greatest hoax is to get people to believe they do not need God's word to show them truth. They can depend on others to tell them what God said/meant to say. They can depend on traditions as equal to God's word. And the Perfect Word of God sits on the bookshelf, gathering dust.
Uh...that was PETER in Acts 10:48, not Paul...
Yeah.
I know that.
My point remains because I don’t see a lot of difference between what the Pharisees did and what the Catholic church hierarchy does.
Wasn't even trying to read anyone's mind, I don't have to since the tone and content of some posts shout it. I can only imagine that it is what prompts people to post in certain ways.
Have you forgotten everything you learned as a "protestant"? Some of the questions you're asking sound like you might have had your memory banks erased. Are these "gotcha" questions or do you really want to know?
I point out the obvious problem.
Then the passage is cited. Finally a line from a different epistle is cited.
My work here (for now) is done. I had a simple aim: to show that that verse by itself couldn't do what was claimed for it.
And there is a larger point: Most of the debate we attempt here is doomed. Verses are loaded into rhetorical cannon and fired with shouts of triumph. Then the target announces itself untouched, and tempers fray.
The reason is that we are dealing with two large and intricate systems of thought. So, from the POV of one system, there are so many things wrong with an idea like the Immaculate Conception that you all hardly know where to begin. Some go directly to cries of blasphemy while others search the Scriptures.
In the meantime, our side, finding in Scripture deep and broad support for the ideas of “sacred tradition” and the Magisterium, views the claims of your side to a kind of Scriptural empiricism both strange and unsupported by Scripture.
Added to that sort of thing is the barely examined difference of metaphysics. I know, I know, “vain philosophy” and all the rest.
But for any on your side who want to dispute our side's idea of timelessness and time, I'd encourage a study of the tenses of Biblical Hebrew. Think about a language with only two tenses, both of which will sometimes be translated with our past, present, and future tenses.
Certainly not everybody has to think about that, just as not everybody finds the questions, “What is a thing?” or “What are we doing when we're thinking?” completely entrancing.
But different answers will support different theological views, and one of the smaller reasons that I'm a Catholic is that I think nearly all of the answers to those questions for the last 500 years are incoherent.
SO, personally I think we'd make more spiritually and evangelically profitable use of our time if we worked on developing our agreements.
But that's just me.
You have made your choice and I’m sorry that you don’t see a difference.
I just thank God every single day that He made me Catholic. And I have no problem with the Church hierarchy. I love our Pope. I’m glad that our beliefs are not determined by a vote.
A vote! How incredible is that! That is why so many of our Christian churches now think abortion is okay. Many of them offer health insurance policies that cover abortion.
Doesn’t that bother you?
Peter did not write Acts. In fact the author of Acts is not known, but many speculate that it was written by the same person that wrote all or parts of Luke. Its writing is concurrent with the Letters of Paul and was certainly influenced by him.
I have seen boatbums and many other Protestants show great and touching love for Christ.
They love Him so well and so prettily that I’m almost confident that He’ll forgive them for not seeing how very right I am.
Come on, bubbas and sissies, Pentecostalists are being harassed, beaten, and jailed in India for making converts to Christ. Let’s remember those neophytes and their courage as we interact here.
Okay. Yeah, I’m preachy. It’s a Dominican thing.
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Have you forgotten everything you learned as a “protestant”? Some of the questions you’re asking sound like you might have had your memory banks erased. Are these “gotcha” questions or do you really want to know?
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boatbums, I never believed what I read here. I may have been Protestant and thought I was a Christian but, I never did an altar call. I literally couldn’t and I was just a child at the time.
I was not baptized. I was unlearned and untaught. For whatever reason I just didn’t believe what I heard. In fact at one point my mother was afraid I was becoming an atheist and had the local Methodist pastor come to our home and answer my questions. He did not impress me.
And yes, these are honest questions. I am not a gotcha type of person.
You claimed it was PAUL who commanded them to be baptized. It was PETER who commanded them to be baptized. It couldn't be any clearer if there was a photo included SHOWING Peter baptizing them. What does this possibly have to do with "who wrote Acts"?
Yes, really CB, the same body He had before His death was resurrected and ascended into heaven to sit at the right hand of God. The wounds in His hands, feet and side were still there, and it was this body which proved to the world that He was who He said He was. The only difference was that it was glorified.
The Incarnation was God’s joining of the human with the divine. He has given us the indwelling of the Spirit. Under the New Covenant we have the grace we lacked under the Old Covenant.
The body is a temple. It has value and must be used just as the much as the spirit in worshiping God and living in His grace.
Jesus said we must love God with all our hearts, our souls, our strength and our minds. Quite simply, with everything we have. It is through all of these things that we live our faith in Jesus and the message of our redemption.
The blood shed by Jesus was very real, the body crucified was very real and the body resurrected was very real. Jesus through the Incarnation has restored what was lost through Adam. Full communion with God and we have His assurance that one day our earthly bodies will be reunited with our souls and we will walk in the presence of God.
The belief that all is spiritual and that there is no salvation for the physical has been around for eons. That Jesus was spirit and not body is a part of that belief. It is just not true.
Try to keep up. The discussion began regarding the salvation of St. Dimas. Someone suggested that because he was promised paradise without being baptized no one required baptism. I pointed out that the command to be Baptized was Pauline first appeared in Acts 10:48 in the order of the Bible, which is well after the crucifixion. Unless you have some hidden knowledge regarding the actual time-line of the writing of each book of the New Testament you are quibbling about an unrelated issue.
Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit NIV
Actually, it was Christ, unless you don’t believe Matthew’s record.
Paul was given THE gospel that grace is ours through the sacrifice of Jesus. It is part of the message of Jesus, maybe even that message more fully revealed. But the message was salvation through grace through the redemptive suffering and death and resurrection of Jesus.
The Kingdom is not a place where we are separated or treated differently because we were Jews or Gentiles.
The Old Testament prepares us for the fulfillment by Jesus of the New Covenant.
Ummm...I think he was a honeybee farmer, uh, no, no, that ain't right, um...a locust herder. Yeah, that's the ticket! ;o)
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