My Faith: Rep. Keith Ellison (D-MN), from Catholic to Muslim

CNN ^ | 9/1/11 | Chris Welch

[marshmallow]

Minneapolis, Minnesota (CNN) –Prior to 2006, few people even knew that then-Minnesota state legislator Keith Ellison was a Muslim. Because of his English name, he said, no one thought to ask.

But five years ago, when he ran for a seat in the United States House of Representatives - a race he would go on to win - word of his religious affiliation began to spread.

“When I started running for Congress it actually took me by surprise that so many people were fascinated with me being the first Muslim in Congress,” said Ellison, a Democrat now serving his third term in the House.

“But someone said to me, ‘Look Keith, think of a person of Japanese origin running for Congress six years after Pearl Harbor–this might be a news story.’”

Though Ellison's status as the first Muslim elected to Congress is widely known, fewer are aware that he was born into a Catholic family in Detroit and was brought up attending Catholic schools.

But he said he was never comfortable with that faith.

“I just felt it was ritual and dogma,” Ellison said. “Of course, that’s not the reality of Catholicism, but it’s the reality I lived. So I just kind of lost interest and stopped going to Mass unless I was required to.”

It wasn’t until he was a student at Wayne State University in Detroit when Ellison began, “looking for other things.”

[smvoice]

Then why castigate non-Catholics who go to the Catechism for your beliefs, post them, and then comment on them, comparing them to what Scripture says? If you don’t like the this is done, why not post a Cathechism of the day, the way you want it posted, and let us non-Catholics read it, and search the Scriptures to see if these things are so?

[metmom]

Also at the following link is a tab to go to the Greek text, which says that almost all things are cleansed with blood, which is quite different from what you’re claiming.

You need to find better translations of Scripture than the ones you dug up from somewhere.

http://bible.cc/hebrews/9-22.htm

New International Version (©1984)
In fact, the law requires that nearly everything be cleansed with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.

New Living Translation (©2007)
In fact, according to the law of Moses, nearly everything was purified with blood. For without the shedding of blood, there is no forgiveness.

English Standard Version (©2001)
Indeed, under the law almost everything is purified with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sins.

New American Standard Bible (©1995)
And according to the Law, one may almost say, all things are cleansed with blood, and without shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.

International Standard Version (©2008)
In fact, under the law almost everything is cleansed with blood, and without the shedding of the blood there is no forgiveness.

GOD’S WORD® Translation (©1995)
As Moses’ Teachings tell us, blood was used to cleanse almost everything, because if no blood is shed, no sins can be forgiven.

King James Bible
And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.

American King James Version
And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.

American Standard Version
And according to the law, I may almost say, all things are cleansed with blood, and apart from shedding of blood there is no remission.

Bible in Basic English
And by the law almost all things are made clean with blood, and without blood there is no forgiveness.

Douay-Rheims Bible
And almost all things, according to the law, are cleansed with blood: and without shedding of blood there is no remission.

Darby Bible Translation
and almost all things are purified with blood according to the law, and without blood-shedding there is no remission.

English Revised Version
And according to the law, I may almost say, all things are cleansed with blood, and apart from shedding of blood there is no remission.

Webster’s Bible Translation
And almost all things are by the law cleansed with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.

Weymouth New Testament
Indeed we may almost say that in obedience to the Law everything is sprinkled with blood, and that apart from the outpouring of blood there is no remission of sins.

World English Bible
According to the law, nearly everything is cleansed with blood, and apart from shedding of blood there is no remission.

Young’s Literal Translation
and with blood almost all things are purified according to the law, and apart from blood-shedding forgiveness doth not come.

[Natural Law]

"Then why castigate non-Catholics who go to the Catechism for your beliefs, post them, and then comment on them, comparing them to what Scripture says?"

Castigate? Really, I only criticize that practice because those who have a brief encounter with the Catechism wrongly conclude its meaning with no study or research and present their flawed hypotheses as fact.

"If you don’t like the this is done, why not post a Cathechism of the day, the way you want it posted, and let us non-Catholics read it, and search the Scriptures to see if these things are so?"

The entire footnoted Catechism is available on line for all who wish to know and there are many resources available to answer questions. Besides, Freeper Salvation posts many informative threads daily and I haven't seen you on them once.

[smvoice]

Here's their problem, metmom.

"Holy Baptism is the basis of the whole Christian life, the gateway to life in the Spirit, and the door which gives access to the other sacraments. Through Baptism WE ARE FREED FROM SIN and REBORN as sons of God; we become members of Christ, areincorporated into the Church and made sharers in her mission: "Baptism is the sacrament of regeneration through water in the word." - Catechism of the Catholic Church.[1213].

So through this water baptism of the RCC two effects of this baptism are stated: The removal of original sin, and the reception of sanctifying grace.

Who needs Christ's shed blood for forgiveness when the magical holy water will do the job? /s

And I ask again, then why did Christ have to die for our sins, Natural Law?

[metmom]

Also.....

*cleanse*

Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: katharuizo
Phoentic Spelling: *kath-ar-id'-zo*
Short Definition: I make clean
Definition: I cleanse, make clean, literally, ceremonially, or spiritually, according to context.

Cognate: 2511 katharízō – make pure ("clean"), removing all admixture (intermingling of filth). See 2513 (katharos)

Word Origin: from katharos
Definition: to cleanse

NASB Word Usage:

clean (3), cleanse (5), cleansed (16), cleanses (1), cleansing (1), declared...clean (1), make...clean (3), purify (1).

[smvoice]

Yes, and Salvation's "informative threads" are asterisked by CATHOLIC CAUCUS THREAD. Want us to get it right? THen define the meanings for us. Show us what the **** they are trying to say.

Study? You say STUDY the Catechism for understanding? How about "Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth." 2 Tim. 2:15.

It is directly because of this Scripture that your Catechism can so easily be Scripturally destroyed.

[Natural Law]

"Yes, and Salvation's "informative threads" are asterisked by CATHOLIC CAUCUS THREAD."

Only her Daily Mass Readings thread is designated as a Caucus thread. I was referring to her Catholic Word of the Day threads.

(Please ping her when discussing her).

[smvoice]

Of course I will ping her. Oops, sorry forgot to on that one.:)

The Catholic Word of the Day thread I will visit.

[smvoice]

Oops forgot to ping her on my “oops I forgot to ping her post”. Sorry. Again

[Alamo-Girl]

Kamen can no more speak for the Jewish people than vladimir998 can speak for the Catholic Church.

When it comes to Jewish/Catholic relations concerning the crusades, inquisition or holocaust one is well advised to keep abreast of the International Catholic-Jewish Liaison Committee.

There is no “Jewish perspective” on the inquisition.

Since you deny there is a Jewish perspective on the inquisition, I strongly recommend you read about the limpieza de sangre (purity of blood) inquisition doctrines which found people with Jewish or Muslim ancestors to be inferior - and history concerning the terms Marranos, Conversos, and New Christians

Estimates vary regarding the actual number of Conversos who died in the fires of the Inquisition. Based on statistics drawn from the records of Autos da fe, as many as 8,000 may have been burned at the stake. Jewish Virtual Library estimates that, in addition to “Conversos” directly murdered by the Spanish Inquisition, “[t]ens of thousands of refugees [expelled from Spain by the 1492 edict] died while trying to reach safety.”

In response to fear of the “Jewish Influence” posed by the Conversos, the Inquisition took a step beyond determining the degree of sincerity of the new Catholics by extending their investigation into Catholic pedigree back generations. Purity of blood, or limpieza de sangre, became the hallmark of who was, and not, a Catholic.

“Now Jewishness is… a permanent inborn characteristic that even baptism does not remove,” (Nicholls, William, 1993, Christian Antisemitism, A History of Hate, p. xxi). “Those who wished to hold public office had to present a certificate … showing that there were no Jews in their lineage, that they were free of… mala sangre, bad blood (ibid. pp. xx-xxi).

Purity of Blood and the Spanish Inquisition (7/17/11)

Note the date. Kamen has not settled the issue for the Jews.

I also suggest you read closely a few posts by Mad Dawg, Natural Law and yes, even Rummel. Inquisition atrocities were politically motivated – they had to do with obtaining and securing power.

Religion was the excuse for the inquisition, divine right colonization, forced conversions, witch hunts, ritualistic sacrifice, crusades, Islamic terrorism, etc.

Witches, btw, were the prime focus of the Protestant version of the Catholic Inquisition (which also prosecuted witches.)

And religion has been the pretext for killing Christians. Even in the crucifixion, Caiaphas thought he was securing the safety or power of the Jewish people by turning Jesus over to die – and his statement was correct but not in the way he meant it:

And one of them, [named] Caiaphas, being the high priest that same year, said unto them, Ye know nothing at all, Nor consider that it is expedient for us, that one man should die for the people, and that the whole nation perish not. And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;

And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad. Then from that day forth they took counsel together for to put him to death. – John 11:49-53

They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service. And these things will they do unto you, because they have not known the Father, nor me. – John 16:2-3

Of course, Gamaliel was also prophetic without realizing it:

And now I say unto you, Refrain from these men, and let them alone: for if this counsel or this work be of men, it will come to nought: But if it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it; lest haply ye be found even to fight against God. – Acts 5:38-39

Christians and Jews have been persecuted and driven all over the world. Jews in particular have been brutalized defamed and slaughtered and yet, after 2000 years - which entailed the crusades, the inquisition and the holocaust - have returned to their own homeland.

For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: For this [is] my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

As concerning the gospel, [they are] enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, [they are] beloved for the fathers' sakes.

For the gifts and calling of God [are] without repentance. - Romans 11:25-29

God’s Name is I AM.

[metmom]

Beautiful post, as usual.

[Alamo-Girl]

Thank you for your encouragement, dear sister in Christ!

[Mad Dawg]

Aren't the limpieza de sangre statutes matter of secular law?

[WPaCon]

I also suggest you read closely a few posts by Mad Dawg, Natural Law and yes, even Rummel. Inquisition atrocities were politically motivated – they had to do with obtaining and securing power.

Religion was the excuse for the inquisition, divine right colonization, forced conversions, witch hunts, ritualistic sacrifice, crusades, Islamic terrorism, etc.

So you're saying that Muslim terrorists are not religiously motivated and instead hijack the religion and use it as an excuse?

[roamer_1]

We don’t agree that it confounds Scripture to say that Mary has been taken to heaven by Jesus. Jesus says He would give life to whom He chooses.

Accepted. However, He has already given life to MANY. It is only Mary who has been lifted up to a position befitting a goddess. In fact, out of all those already given life, it is only Mary who is recognizable - Why are there no powerful apparitions of David? or the Prophets? Or the Patriarchs? Many of these saw YHWH face to face (and since no man has seen YHWH, it is safe to say that they were face to face with Yeshua). Why no appearances from the Apostles? Why aren't these mighty men of YHWH appearing in the sky, making pronouncements and uttering prophecy?

I can tell you why - None of these fit the mold of pagan Rome, that's why.

[...]The doctrine is not made up of whole cloth, but is a formal declaration by the Church of a belief that has been a part of the community of believers since nearly the very beginning.

The veneration of Mary began very early in the Church. The catacombs in Rome have depictions of her. There is even one of her being assumed into heaven. She is called the mother of the church and there is a fresco in those catacombs that shows her between Peter and Paul.

To say that the Church has “made up” the Marian doctrines out of whole cloth is a false accusation. As early as the second century, writers and theologians have considered Mary and her role in salvation, in the Church and in the hearts of believers.

I will reject that outright. There are depictions of 'Mary' going back far before her birth... All the way back to Babylon. And there is a dearth of actual extant early works - 100-350AD. Virtually all the works that you would have to rely upon are later copies; which copies were created amidst reams and reams of forgeries, and at a time when works were shamelessly infected with inclusions at a rate not seen before or since. It is my assertion that *none* of it can be relied upon.

And what is far more incredulous is what these documents purport to acclaim: That the liturgical Roman church sprang forth from Judaism, and supposedly, literally over night. The two are quite incompatible, and the closer one tries to align the Roman church to the early Church (torah observant Jewish sect) the more ludicrous it becomes.

To believe that Jesus, who is God, prepared her for Himself and then assumed her into heaven at the end of her life to be with Him does not conflict with Scripture. The Scriptures clearly shows that others are in heaven, body and soul so it is not without precedent.

Except for the fact that early versions of the story admit she died and was buried, and make absolutely no claim to her assumed assumption, I would agree that there would be no necessary conflict - Neither is there any necessary evidence. And in accepting things for which there is no proof ('Mary' included, most prominently), the inevitable result is the preaching of a different gospel, and the ascent of another kingdom.

To believe these things about Mary does not lead us to believe a different Gospel, it reinforces the Gospel we already believe. That Jesus is Lord, Son of the Living God and by His grace we are saved and will have eternal life with Him. To think that Jesus honored His mother is in perfect keeping with Scripture, both the plain text and the spirit.

The spirit of the Word necessarily flows from the Old Testament to the New - Not the other way around. New revelation cannot make older revelation null, without making YHWH a liar. Therefore, what begins in the Torah must, of a necessity, not be changed. Just as prophets cannot discount what was stated before them, neither can preachers. Brick by brick, line by line. What is preached out of Rome can in no way be considered to be in perfect keeping generally, not to mention only 'Mary'. It does indeed teach a different gospel.

[Iscool]

As we observe too frequentlt, rhe literal translation of Catholic dogma, written in Vulgate Latin, into modern English is a fool’s errand and there is no shortage of fools prowling the Religion Forum.

For those with no formal education in Catholic dogma, doctrine and history and no fluency in Latin non-eisegesistic translation is an impossible task. Their “Googlesterium” is at best a joke and too often it is a tool of evil and of those intent on doing evil. The attempts posted repeatedly in the Religion Forum are embarrassingly and painfully flawed. With so much disinformation, misinformation and outright lies it is important that the truth be told.

OK...where it at??? You seem to delight in always telling us were are wrong but oddly, you never correct us with the 'truth'...

Well, here is the truth from a couple of different Catholic sources and guess what??? It confirms what we already know...It's not such a big mystery as you make it out to be...

a whole bunch of Jesuses out there

By virtue of sacramental consecration, the ordained priest does not simply become a functionary. This consecration does not set him apart to simply perform certain tasks in the Church. No, by virtue of the sacramental consecration which the priest receives, he is ontologically changed. He is configured to the Person of Jesus Christ, Head and Shepherd, in a new way in his very being. "The relation of the priest to Jesus Christ, and in him to his Church, is found in the very being of the priest by virtue of his sacramental consecration/anointing and in his activity, that is, in his mission and ministry." Just as at Baptism and Confirmation the Christian is sacramentally marked on the soul, so is the man who is ordained a priest marked sacramentally and configured to Christ the Priest.

The dignity of the priestly vocation in no way diminishes the importance of the lay vocation. Both are equal in dignity and both are called to holiness. However, there is an essential difference between the two vocations. By looking at the Hypostatic Union of Christ we have seen, albeit analogously, how the ordained priest is configured to Christ in his very being. To repeat what was said above: Just as the human nature of Christ is personalized by its union with the divine Person of the Word, so is the priest, by virtue of sacramental consecration, configured in his being to Jesus Christ, Head and Shepherd. This is the only analogy by which we are able to grasp the ontological character of configuration which takes place when a man is ordained a priest.

Only by having a deep knowledge of the Person and work of Jesus Christ is the priest able to understand his own identity. John Paul says, "the priest finds the full truth of his identity in being a derivation, a specific participation in and continuation of Christ himself, the one high priest of the new and eternal covenant. The priest is a living and transparent image of Christ the priest…Reference to Christ is thus the absolutely necessary key for understanding the reality of the priesthood." The priest is called to be a man of prayer and contemplation, for it is through prayer (and study) that the priest comes to a deeper personal knowledge of the Person and work of Christ. In prayer and contemplation he is sent forth by Christ to minister to his people in pastoral charity. Possessing this understanding of his own vocation the words of Pope John Paul II will echo true in the heart of the priest: "Our priestly life and activity continue the life and activity of Christ himself. Here lies our identity, our true dignity, the source of our joy, the very basis of our life."

just have enough faith

For some, “in persona Christi” means that the priest merely represents Jesus before the people. Others believe it means that the priest simply performs actions that are Christ-like. The true meaning of the phrase, however, is far deeper than we can imagine without the gift of faith. For it means nothing less than that a priest, in a certain metaphysical sense, is Jesus.

Don’t take that to mean that when a man is ordained he somehow becomes divine like our Lord. No, as any priest will tell you, he retains his humanity just like the rest of us – complete with the inclination toward sin that afflicts us all.

Rather, at his ordination, a man’s soul is mystically transformed and given a permanent mark – also called a “character” – that empowers him to do for the People of God what ultimately only Jesus can do, most notably change ordinary bread and wine into the Lord’s body and blood, and forgive our sins in the Sacrament of Confession.

The next time you’re looking at a priest as he’s celebrating Mass or one of the other sacraments, try to see with the eyes of faith who is really standing before you – Jesus Christ!

That's right...Try, Try, Try you little heart out...

It's no mystery what you guys believe...The only mystery is how do educated people fall for it...

[Iscool]

Going therefore, teach ye all nations; baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost.

Matthew 28:19

Teaching all nations WHAT??? Why not try reading the bible instead of just posting one of your religion's talking points...

You guys don't fulfill that command any more than Henry Potter does...

[Iscool]

The VERY THING! Srsly. HE is THE Priest. There is no other. All. Before him were shadows or imposters. All since are imposters or “in” the priesthood because they are “in” Him.

All Christians are 'in' Him, and He 'in' us...So can we go around turning bread into flesh...What kind of loaf do I need for fried chicken???

Sorry to hear you went nutz...

[Iscool]

Your point was BAPTISM for remission of sins. Our point was The BLOOD OF CHRIST for the remission of sins. Just in case you forgot what you were arguing about..

Water baptism then is just the same as it is now...

1Pe 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

So how does baptism save us??? It's not the water, it's the good conscience...

Act 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

What??? No baptism??? Just belief???

I wonder if that's why some people in the bible got baptized AFTER they believed and received the Holy Ghost...(No, I don't wonder at all)

[Iscool]

As a former Catholic you must be familiar with the Nicene Creed which states; "One baptism for the forgiveness of sins"

HaHaHa...The nicene creed is NOT the bible...