Posted on 09/02/2011 9:07:47 AM PDT by marshmallow
How so?
Because their core beliefs are those of the Church which they took from the church when they left her.
They did not redefine Christianity, they rejected certain aspects of the faith of the Church.
Exactly what cafeteria Catholics are said to do only to the extreme indeed.
“That is an asinine assertion.* Both of those texts are held very dear by the Reformed. It is the Papist Church that has added entire books to the Bible and fosters a hatred of Paul by her followers because he refutes the very core of what Rome teaches.
*Note that I called the claim asinine, not the poster. “
Damn that Papist Church for actually giving you the Bible that you try to use against her daily.
Damn that Papist Church for writing the New Testament and preserving all the books of the Old Testament so that you in your arrogance can try to say she is wrong.
Read, just read. Get a clue and study some history instead of these ridiculous claims that are the product of ignorance. (And I surely hope that when you meet your judgement that you will be charged with invincible ignorance instead of hatred)
That's a good observation. I also think many came from a gang environment rather than a nurturing home life and the Nation of Islam and Islam in general continue that same type of atmosphere. It's more of what they already know. Christianity, OTOH, teaches family, too, but in a self-reliant, helping one another and loving your neighbor as yourself. Islam preaches giving to the poor, but only poor Muslims.
I still believe, however, that whoever searches for the truth in a sincere manner will be answered by the only, true God who is Jehovah - the self existent one. The Holy Spirit is in the WORLD to convict the world of sin, righteousness and judgment. No one will have an excuse.
What appears to be happening here is that Catholics want us to believe the doctrine of the Trinity not because Scripture is chock full of references to the members of the Godhead, but rather because the Catholic church (allegedly) formally came up with the doctrine. So they want us to take it on the RCC authority, and not the authority of Scripture.
Matthew 12:15-18 15Jesus, aware of this, withdrew from there. And many followed him, and he healed them all 16and ordered them not to make him known. 17 This was to fulfill what was spoken by the prophet Isaiah: 18 "Behold, my servant whom I have chosen, my beloved with whom my soul is well pleased. I will put my Spirit upon him, and he will proclaim justice to the Gentiles.
Matthew 12:25-3225 Knowing their thoughts, he said to them, "Every kingdom divided against itself is laid waste, and no city or house divided against itself will stand. 26And if Satan casts out Satan, he is divided against himself. How then will his kingdom stand? 27And if I cast out demons by Beelzebul, by whom do your sons cast them out? Therefore they will be your judges. 28But if it is by the Spirit of God that I cast out demons, then the kingdom of God has come upon you. 29Or how can someone enter a strong man’s house and plunder his goods, unless he first binds the strong man? Then indeed he may plunder his house. 30 Whoever is not with me is against me, and whoever does not gather with me scatters. 31 Therefore I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven people, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. 32And whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.
Luke 3:21-23 21Now when all the people were baptized, and when Jesus also had been baptized and was praying, the heavens were opened, 22and the Holy Spirit descended on him in bodily form, like a dove; and a voice came from heaven, "You are my beloved Son; with you I am well pleased."
John 15:26 "But when the Helper comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth, who proceeds from the Father, he will bear witness about me.
Acts 7:55 But he, full of the Holy Spirit, gazed into heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God.
If Peter had been given these revelations by the risen Christ, you would have a completely different position. But alas, he did not. He was given the Kingdom Gospel to preach, and that he did, until Israel was blinded and set aside. You as a Gentile, should have true respect for God's choice in Paul. Once Israel was set aside, gentiles were without hope, as our blessings were to come through Israel as God's agency on earth. They were to be a kingdom of priests to the nations.
Thank God He saved Paul and gave to him the ministry of reconciliation, and the gospel of the grace of God whereby we are all equal before God's eyes. And we are all saved by belief on the finished work of Christ, and that alone.
I'll let you in on another reason to respect Paul as God's agent to us in this dispensation: "The preaching of the Jesus Christ according to the revelation of THE MYSTERY, which was kept SECRET SINCE THE WORLD BEGAN, but NOW is made manifest.." Rom 16:25,26. This was not given to Peter and the 11, or to John the Baptist, or to anyone else until it was revealed to Paul by DIRECT REVELATIONS OF JESUS CHRIST.
Keys to the Kingdom? Binding and loosing? Retaining and remitting sins? All given to Peter and the 11 for the Kingdom that was to be set up on earth when Christ returns. Popes and bishops and magisterium? All given by men in order to attempt to carry out a commission that has been set aside until God begins to deal with Israel as a nation again.
Search the Epistles, search God's direct revelations to Paul, search the proof that Paul gave that Jesus Christ spoke to him face to face and mouth to mouth for those revelations for a new dispensation concerning not a Kingdom of Believers, but a Body of Believers.
You shortchange the very person that Jesus Christ chose to bring this age of grace to an unbelieving world.
That’s exactly what they want. It’s the herd mentality. It’s more comfortable if everyone believes the same as they do. It gives them the feeling that they are not by themselves. They fear the “narrow road” as it leaves them vulnerable. Security in numbers and all that.
It is my understanding that every year during Ramadan, when the Muslims are fasting during the day, that there are numbers of them who come to Christ as a result of visions and dreams of Christ appearing to them.
Those who are truly seeking God with a sincere heart, even if caught up in a brainwashed cult, will find Him. God will not abandon them.
Just when you think you’ve read it all, that it cannot possibly be more presumptive or preposporus, here comes another doctrine down the pike.
They didn’t give us the Bible nor did they write it.
The Holy Spirit inspired men to write the Scripture and the Catholic church was not in existence yet.
Claiming it in hindsight does not make it so and does not give the Catholic church the right or authority to dictate to others outside of it how to read it, how to interpret it, or what to believe. The Catholic church does not own the Bible and dictate it’s use.
Who is the infamous “they”—? Everybody but you?
So now you are an expert on Catholic doctrine? Where did you study the doctrines of the Catholic Church and who were your professors? I am aware of at least 60 references to the works of Paul within the Catechism. Why don't you start with those and explain how they each are outside the Catholic doctrines. When you are done we can get into the dogmatic issues.
As a "Protestant" allow me to answer that. I do not reject Mary nor do I believe any of us do. What I reject is the "believe it or be condemned" DOGMA that states - apart from any Scriptural authority - that she was sinless from birth, remained free from sin, was bodily assumed into Heaven, that she intercedes for us Christians here and/or in Purgatory (I don't believe in such a place but that is another thread topic entirely) or that she dispenses grace. I also do not believe in the title Mother of God, simply because it presumes God the Son needed a human mother of his divine nature. So I have no fear of being proved wrong and it upsetting my security in Christ.
In all truth, I think Catholics can believe whatever they want as long as they give up the claim that they alone are the one true church of Christ and that no one can be saved outside of her. When your Magesterium contrives doctrines apart from Scriptural warrant and makes unfailing obedience to those as a condition of salvation, then I think they have overstepped any authority they may have over all Christians.
So, it is not some form of jealousy or fear of suddenly falling into the Catholic trap that moves me to dispute Catholic doctrine about Mary or any other doctrines, it is a genuine concern that some people only know what they are told and they are taught to fear the very act of doubting or questioning. It seems as though it may be the other way around, some Catholics are afraid that if what they are assured is truth could be disproved, then they have grounds for questioning other teachings and, maybe, the Catholic Church really isn't all that it says it is.
One last thing, I do not condone crude and offensive comments from either side, although, I can certainly understand the temptation to respond in kind when that is the only way some chose to communicate. Respect reaps respect.
“They didn’t give us the Bible nor did they write it.
The Holy Spirit inspired men to write the Scripture and the Catholic church was not in existence yet.”
Who knew? metmon, until the 1500s if you were a Christian you were a Catholic. And I think you know that. You may deny it now but you know it, in that deep place where we all know many things.
That darn old KJV just fell out of the sky totally printed with those red edges on the pages.
For God so loved the world He sent a book? And not only that, He sent a book missing some sacred scripture.
Who knew?
I was a Protestant for 61 years and I finally got a clue. I became a Catholic.
metmon, you know that what you have just said is not true. And if you don’t, you should. You started life as a Catholic.
I will as soon as you study the Bible and tell me where Catholic doctrines can be found. Be a hero. Show us where we went wrong. Here’s a start: Why wasn’t Paul chosen as the 12th Disciple after Judas? It certainly would have made RCC doctrine run a little smoother. Good luck with your searches.
It seems that the Catholics want to take credit for the writing of Scripture, the preservation of Scripture, and the interpretation of Scripture, so that they can make us feel like we have to *owe* them for it, and that gives them some sort of control over us or makes us somehow indebted to them for it.
It seems like they just cannot stand the thought of someone doing something outside of their control; that if they can somehow own it and convince everyone else of that, they can control its use.
Sorry, not buying.....
Have some cheese with that whine.
The “they” would be anyone who is drawn to the largest group they can find because it’s comfortable “belonging”. Most often they are uncomfortable not following the crowd if you will. They need to convince others that it’s their group who is “right”, or “the in crowd” or “the only way”. Most often they will not be the leaders but the followers. They, even though they try to convince you that they are with the right group, will feel very intimidated if challenged.
That’s quite a reach...
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