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To: ColdSteelTalon
I could never become a member of the Catholic Church. It has the blood of too many on its hands. Too many burnings at the stake. Too much political intrigue.

These are broad statements. Can you back them up with some specifics?

In its 2000 year history, not one pope has ever erred in doctrines of faith or morals. The Church is Christ's bride (Ephesians 5:29) and has "no spot, wrinkle or blemish" (Ephesians 5:27). Christ also stated that the gates of Hell will not prevail against His Church (Matthew 16:18) so how can the Church commit error? Individual clergy may commit sins, even popes commit sins because in the Church there are both "weeds and wheat" (Matthew 13:30).

18 posted on 08/22/2011 5:52:21 AM PDT by NYer ("Be kind to every person you meet. For every person is fighting a great battle." St. Ephraim)
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To: NYer
“In its 2000 year history, not one pope has ever erred in doctrines of faith or morals.”

Really?

So was Pope Stephen in error in doctrines of faith or morals when he had his predecessor exhumed and held to trial (while dead) for violations of cannon law and other charges - or was Pope Formosus in error in doctrines of faith or morals as Pope Stephen charged?

Hard to say that neither men erred in doctrines of faith or morals. One of then had to be wrong.

21 posted on 08/22/2011 10:17:53 AM PDT by allmendream (Tea Party did not send the GOP to D.C. to negotiate the terms of our surrender to socialism.)
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To: NYer
These are broad statements. Can you back them up with some specifics?

The church wiped out the Cathars for starters.

22 posted on 08/22/2011 11:16:44 AM PDT by ColdSteelTalon (Light is fading to shadow, and casting its shroud over all we have known...)
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To: NYer; ColdSteelTalon

“In its 2000 year history, not one pope has ever erred in doctrines of faith or morals.”

That is a broad statement. Care to explain how you define it? Peter, for example, gave in to the teaching of the Judaizers:

” 11But when Cephas came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he stood condemned. 12For before certain men came from James, he was eating with the Gentiles; but when they came he drew back and separated himself, fearing the circumcision party. 13And the rest of the Jews acted hypocritically along with him, so that even Barnabas was led astray by their hypocrisy. 14But when I saw that their conduct was not in step with the truth of the gospel, I said to Cephas before them all, “If you, though a Jew, live like a Gentile and not like a Jew, how can you force the Gentiles to live like Jews?”

15We ourselves are Jews by birth and not Gentile sinners; 16yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified.

17But if, in our endeavor to be justified in Christ, we too were found to be sinners, is Christ then a servant of sin? Certainly not! 18For if I rebuild what I tore down, I prove myself to be a transgressor. 19For through the law I died to the law, so that I might live to God. 20I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. 21I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness were through the law, then Christ died for no purpose.” - Gal 2

If Peter tried to “force the Gentiles to live like Jews”, how was that NOT wrong doctrine?

One could go on.

“Pope Honorius I (died October 12, 638) was pope from 625 to 638...

...More than forty years after his death, Honorius was anathematized by name along with the Monothelites by the Third Council of Constantinople (First Trullan) in 680. The anathema read, after mentioning the chief Monothelites, “and with them Honorius, who was Prelate of Rome, as having followed them in all things”.

Furthermore, the Acts of the Thirteenth Session of the Council state, “And with these we define that there shall be expelled from the holy Church of God and anathematized Honorius who was some time Pope of Old Rome, because of what we found written by him to [Patriarch] Sergius, that in all respects he followed his view and confirmed his impious doctrines.” The Sixteenth Session adds: “To Theodore of Pharan, the heretic, anathema! To Sergius, the heretic, anathema! To Cyrus, the heretic, anathema! To Honorius, the heretic, anathema! To Pyrrhus, the heretic, anathema!”

This condemnation was subsequently confirmed by Leo II (a fact disputed by such persons as Cesare Baronio and Bellarmine,[1] but which has since become commonly accepted) in the form, “and also Honorius, who did not attempt to sanctify this Apostolic Church with the teaching of Apostolic tradition, but by profane treachery permitted its purity to be polluted”. The Catholic Encyclopedia notes: “It is clear that no Catholic has the right to defend Pope Honorius. He was a heretic, not in intention, but in fact; and he is to be considered to have been condemned in the sense in which Origen and Theodore of Mopsuestia, who died in Catholic communion, never having resisted the Church, have been condemned.” (quotations from the Catholic Encyclopedia)” - Wiki on Honorius

Ever hear this? “Furthermore, we declare, we proclaim, we define that it is absolutely necessary for salvation that every human creature be subject to the Roman Pontiff.” - http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Bon08/B8unam.htm (UNAM SANCTAM, Bull of Pope Boniface VIII promulgated November 18, 1302)

Is that still the doctrine of the Roman Catholic Church, or has it changed? And if it is no longer believed, then didn’t Pope Boniface teach something false, and declare...proclaim...define a false doctrine of faith?


39 posted on 08/22/2011 4:49:59 PM PDT by Mr Rogers ("they found themselves made strangers in their own country")
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