The Roots of the Papacy and the Primacy of Peter

Insight Scoop ^ | August 21, 2011 | Carl Olson

[ColdSteelTalon]

Here's three martyrs who are remembered today. I can post more to you each day.

You keep trying to change the subject.

I have proven my point regarding the Catholic Church's abuse of power to kill those they did not agree with using the Cathars as an example. You can throw martyrs at me every day, it does not change historical facts.

[Jvette]

I understand what you are saying, but I must ask you, what is your feeling about the reign of Elizabeth I, who, in the name of her Christian beliefs had Catholics killed?

No one here claims the Church has an unblemished record, nor that there have been popes and other leaders of seriously bad character.

For me, that truth has been one of the reasons I am Catholic.

Jesus promised His Church would survive even the gates of hell and it has.

[Cronos]

It has the blood of too many on its hands.

one finds the same argument used against Christianity as a whole.

[Mr Rogers]

“...I must ask you, what is your feeling about the reign of Elizabeth I, who, in the name of her Christian beliefs had Catholics killed?”

You could pick a better example than Queen Elizabeth. She had very few Catholics put to death during most of her reign. At the end, after multiple attempts on her life by Catholics, she killed Catholics for lack of loyalty, not out of religious belief. Unlike her older sister, Bloody Mary...

There have been ample killings on both sides. When you mix church and state, evil comes. Doesn’t matter if it is Protestant or Catholic, mixing politics with church is a bad idea.

[Cronos]

It has the blood of too many on its hands.

Secondly, one finds that argument used to blame even our Southern Baptist friends who accuse it (incorrectly) of being an outcome of being anti-African American.

Talking about actions in the 1500s or even 1700s and comparing this to a denomination just formed in the 20th century is apples and oranges

[Cronos]

Finally, the Cathars were Gnostics who believed that all matter was evil and that the best way to handle this was to not bring more children into the world and to die to escape this illusion of a world — a very Jain philosophy but without the depth of Jainism

[Jvette]

I agree with your point and when one examines the times that religion has been used as a justification for killing others, it can almost always be traced back to civil or political agendas.

The point is that the Church does have human leaders and humans are sinners and some of those sinful leaders have used the Church to further their own power and wealth.

It is unfortunate, but not limited to just the Catholic Church.

[Coleus]

I just saw dr. scott hahn talk about Isa 22 on the show “our Father’s plan”...

[dsutah]

There were a lot of Catholics burnt at the stake also! How about Joan of Arc, who was but one of many? Also, how about the Catholics who died along w/Jews in the Holocaust? There was a large number of Catholic priests and monks who died when Henry the Eighth, (who started his own church)went on a rampage on the monasteries!

[ColdSteelTalon]

In reply to your question. It does not matter happened to Catholics when they did not have the power. It matters what the Catholic Church has done when it held on to the levers of political power. The historical fact is that the Catholic Church was directly responsible for killing people that did not agree with its doctrine. They had the power they had a choice, and in the past the Church chose to murder people. Granted it does not do or advocate these things today. But the Church expressly decided to kill against the will of Christ. I do not align myself with an organization that has such a history. I am a Christian but I would disavow the Church I am affiliated with in heartbeat if it advocated in the now or if it was ever proven that it had a history in the past, of murdering people.