I went to all the catechism classes the church gave, went to a week long VBS type thing one summer.
All of it done by the nuns, in habits in those days, just about the time the mass was changed from Latin, etc. through the early 70’s.
It’s the church’s responsibility to make sure the adherents are properly catechized. I know what I was taught and had no reason to suspect that it would be considered inadequate by some later in life. You are raised to NOT question the authority or pronouncements of the clergy or nuns. You just don’t do it.
So how is someone supposed to know whether they are being *poorly* catechized or not and pursue it on their own? There is no room for thinking for yourself in Catholicism. You believe what they tell you under threat of eternal damnation. That doesn’t leave a lot of room or freedom for questioning.
There's a seam from one paragraph to the next. In your environment maybe there was no room for thinking for yourself. In mine I have found little else! Seriously. I mean, we're playing for the same team, but I have gone up against a couple of friars (usually I get my butt kicked, but they play fair) on Trinitarian and Christological issues as well as justice issues.
I remember at one RCIA class, Fr. Dominic giving one 5 minute answer and saying, "Is that okay?" and the guy next to me, already a Catholic, was there as a sponsor, saying,"NO!"
So we all laughed, and Fr. Dominic kind of did a mock slump of disappointment, and then we went into it further.
Of course, this IS a university parish, and the life of the mind is kind of a big deal here.
And to say "it's the Church's responsibility" is, koff koff, another example of poor catechesis! (I'm kidding a little.)
Do the word "subsidiarity" mean anything to you? Or the word "member"? The Church is not "they". The Church is "we". It's OUR responsibility to provide good catechesis.
Specifically, it is the parents' responsibility, first. And they draw on their pastor and their parish for "subsidium", and so on up the line.
If your parents taught you to knuckle under to the bully nuns, shame on them. IF there were no devotions and no conversations in your house about God 'n Jesus 'n stuff, shame on them!
I am not at all saying the clergy and religious are guilt free. But the surest defense against over-weening clergy and religious is responsibility.
I know that plenty of people including plenty of Catholic clergy and religious encourage dependency relationships. But evidently they got a lot of cooperation from people who were content to be dependent if it wasn't too much work.
I wonder if your parents read, say, Cardinal Newman's Apologia or "The Idea of a University" or the social encyclicals, or engaged their minds in their faith at all.
I don't mean to give offense. But I was reading philosophy and theology in my teens, mostly simple stuff, because I wanted to KNOW, not just to accept. And clearly there are survivors of Catholic education who came out Catholic but informed and inquisitive.
So I do wonder about home environments and the culture of inquiry and piety.
Historically, that's the way it's always been in that religion...Martin Luther of course changed all that but still that religion survived...
It's interesting that the Catholic church has never come out with a little booklet explaining the doctrines and rules of the Catholic religion...Right up front...Cut and dried...
As I see it, they don't want you to know...And they certainly don't want you to search the scriptures to find out for yourself what God says...
I wonder what they call the sufficiently catechized priests who leave their religion...
I think you have hit on something here. I honestly think Mad Dawg is an exceptional Roman Catholic. He is so because he sees past the rote dominating of the laity by the clergy that so many of us endured until God led us out into the light. I, and you and others here, have said numerous times that the Catholic Church does contain some saved Christians, but I really do think that they are that in spite of, not because of, the teachings of the Catholic Church.
I think back on how many arguments we have gone through on this forum where we say something like, "We are saved by grace not by works.", and a Catholic will say, "We believe that, too!". But as we continued the discussion, the Catholic further explains that he doesn't really think it means that works don't contribute to his salvation and the "faith without works is dead" verse gets thrown in our faces. So within the same thread it goes back and forth so much that it becomes hard to pin down exactly what the Catholics believe.
I have stopped wasting my time arguing about minor disagreements with the Catholic lobby. It is clear that nothing I or anyone else can say - even with Scripture as back up - can budge them from this idea that only what they are told is true and we're the devil trying to deceive them. Yet, the Church has not defined all things nor have they ever created a comprehensive Bible commentary that interprets the Bible from a strict Catholic viewpoint. I know I have related this story before, but I'll tell it again for the point. I was having breakfast with a priest and a few family members. We got on the subject of favorite Bible verses. I said mine was Ephesians 2:8,9 "For by grace are ye saved through faith and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God, not of works lest any man should boast.". The priest then says, "That sounds Protestant to me." No lie! It was translated the same way in his Bible version but he heard something that sounded like heresy to him. The thing is, when I read John 10:27-30 for the first time, I knew immediately that it was the truth and that what I had been told all my life was not true. Jesus said I can know I was saved and he would never cast me out, pluck me out or lose me. It said "eternal security", and I understood grace - for the first time. I was one of his sheep and he was calling me.
The point is, those of us who have left the Catholic Church did so with our eyes wide open. They were opened by the Holy Spirit and did not come about because of a lack of clear Church teaching.