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To: Iscool

There is a problem — well, more than one. (I have no idea what “half a grapefruit” refers to.)

You insist that the vestments and ceremonies are about the person, the individual. Maybe they are for you, but you are not a Catholic. So it’s not so clear how your reaction could be an argument against Catholicism.

Personally, I find it completely natural and reasonable to distinguish between the individual and the function. I don’t care so very much about the person of the guy who cuts my grass or takes out my appendix. My recourse to both of them is centered on their function, their “office”.

I am not unaware of them personally, but it is psychologically easy to separate their function from themselves.

Likewise when Fr. So and so hears my confession (and sometimes I will choose a confessor precisely because I don’t know him) or celebrates the Mass, my mind is not on him but on Jesus.

So your report of what gets your attention at Mass has no connection with what gets my attention at Mass, and simply does not apply to our statements on the topic.


205 posted on 08/21/2011 4:05:04 AM PDT by Mad Dawg (Oh Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee.)
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To: Mad Dawg
You insist that the vestments and ceremonies are about the person, the individual. Maybe they are for you, but you are not a Catholic. So it’s not so clear how your reaction could be an argument against Catholicism.

Well I don't know...If your pope showed up in your parish wearing a 3 piece suit, are you saying no one would kneel down or bring their babies up for him to kiss??? Would anyone blasphemously call him the 'Holy Father'???

BTW, his hat looks like half of a grapefruit...Maybe he should wear a beret' instead...And get rid of those feminine red shoes...

207 posted on 08/21/2011 4:16:38 AM PDT by Iscool (I don't understand all that I know...)
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To: Mad Dawg
I am not unaware of them personally, but it is psychologically easy to separate their function from themselves. Likewise when Fr. So and so hears my confession (and sometimes I will choose a confessor precisely because I don’t know him) or celebrates the Mass, my mind is not on him but on Jesus.

I think this statement is getting to the gist of what I and others have been trying to stress. You know I appreciate your knowledge as well as your expressed relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ, so I hope you take my comments in that spirit.

We are given several admonitions in Scripture about the purpose of "confession". First of all - and mainly - is the idea that we sin against God by our wrong actions but it is not exclusively that he, alone, is offended. We go to him and "name it like he names it", coming clean in what we have done that was wrong. We are assured that God is faithful to forgive us and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness (I John 1:9). There are other people that are affected by our deeds both directly and indirectly. With that in mind, when James states we should confess our sins/faults to one another and pray for each other for healing, he cannot be speaking about "anonymous" confessing.

You purposely seek a man whom you do not know personally and who, you hope, doesn't know you either to hear your confession. You accept his absolution and penance requirements and, when completed, you leave confident that your sin is no longer an issue. Knowing you as well as I can via this online relationship, I also believe that you would apologize to the individual you offended by your action and ask for their forgiveness, intending to avoid repeating the same wrong. However, I don't think every other person may be that noble. From what I remember as a Catholic, I don't recall an emphasis on going to the person you offended and asking for their forgiveness. I'm not saying no priest does this, but just that I don't remember it being stressed.

The admonition in James has much more to do with accountability to each other than it does to a "sacrament of confession", so to speak. Think about how it would affect your way of life if, instead of confessing your faults to an unknown priest, you told your two best friends. And they, in turn, had the same deal with you. If this was the way we all faced our failings, don't you think it would and could drastically change the state of our churches?

262 posted on 08/21/2011 2:32:08 PM PDT by boatbums ( God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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