Posted on 08/18/2011 7:18:16 AM PDT by marshmallow
So why is the seal of confession inviolable? Why does the seal bind under such a grave obligation that the Church excommunicates any confessor who directly violates it? (See: The seal of confession: some basics)
There are two principal reasons why the priest must preserve the seal: the virtue of justice and the virtue of religion. The motive of justice is evident because the penitent, by the very fact of entering the confessional, or asking the priest to hear his confession (we’ll deal with “reconciliation rooms” another day) rightly expects that the priest will observe the seal. This is a contract entered into by the fact of the priest agreeing to hear a person’s confession. To mandate the violation of the seal is in effect to prohibit the celebration of the sacrament of Penance.
Much more grave than the obligation of justice towards the penitent is the obligation of religion due to the sacrament. The Catholic Encyclopaedia gives a brief explanation of the virtue of religion which essentially summarises the teaching of St Thomas Aquinas. (Summa Theologica 2a 2ae q.81) Religion is a moral virtue by which we give to God what is His due; it is, as St Thomas says, a part of justice. In the case of the sacrament of Penance, instituted by Christ, Fr Felix Cappello explains things well [my translation]:
By the very fact that Christ permitted, nay ordered, that all baptised sinners should use the sacrament and consequently make a secret confession, he granted an absolutely inviolable right, transcending the order of natural justice, to use this remedy. Therefore the knowledge which was their own before confession, after the communication made in confession, remains their own for every non-sacramental use, and that by a power altogether sacred, which no contrary human law can strike out, since every human law is of an inferior order: whence this right cannot be taken away or overridden by any means, or any pretext, or any motive.
The penitent confesses his sins to God through the priest. If the seal were to be broken under some circumstances, it would put people off the sacrament and thereby prevent them from receiving the grace that they need in order to repent and amend their lives. It would also, and far more importantly, obstruct the will of God for sinners to make use of the sacrament of Penance and thereby enjoy eternal life. The grace of the sacrament is absolutely necessary for anyone who commits a mortal sin. To mandate the violation of the seal is in effect to prohibit the practice of the Catholic faith. Some secular commentators have spoken of the seal of confession as being somehow a right or privilege of the priest. That is a preposterous misrepresentation: it is a sacred and inviolable duty that the priest must fulfil for the sake of the penitent and for the sake of God's will to redeem sinners.
A possibly misleading phrase in this context is where theologians say that the penitent is confessing his sins as if to God "ut Deo." (You can easily imagine secularists deriding the idea that the priest makes himself to be a god etc.) In truth, the penitent is confessing his sins before God. The priest acts as the minister of Christ in a sacred trust which he may not violate for any cause - precisely because he is not in fact God. By virtue of the penitent’s confession ut Deo, the priest absolves the penitent and, if mortal sin is involved, thereby readmits him to Holy Communion.
There will be more to follow on the sacrament of confession. As I mentioned in my previous post, this series is not intended as a guide for making a devout confession but rather as an introduction to some canonical and theological questions regarding the sacrament which have become important recently. (For a leaflet on how to make a good confession, see my parish website.)
I have been told that the threat in Ireland to introduce a law compelling priests to violate the seal of confession has been withdrawn, at least for the time being. Nevertheless, I will continue with these posts because I think that the Irish proposal will be picked up by other secularists and may pose a problem for us. Further posts will look at the proper place, time and vesture for hearing confessions, one or two more particular crimes in canon law, the question of jurisdiction and the much misused expression “Ecclesia supplet”, and, of course, what to do if the civil authority tries to compel a priest to break the seal.
No. Rocky is that other guy, Cephas.
It's the Almond Joy paradox.....I was Peter when I should have read Paul. I saw it the moment I hit enter.
Nice catch! It’s an interesting question. Well played.
Well, as the great Marty Feldman said in his Young Frankenstein Igor voice, "Well, you would be wrong then, wouldn't you?"
I believe in the true Christian faith as taught by Jesus Christ, passed on to the Apostles and recorded by the inspired writers of Scripture. It is NOT new, or improved, it's not my own personal doctrine. I would say there are many areas with which I disagree with the Roman Catholic Church but the primary area of disagreement is with the doctrine of justification. I reject your labels and derogatory, presumed "insight" into what I know in my heart about my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. What I believe is what Scripture teaches. Nothing more, nothing less.
It took me a little time but I recalled the thread that you mined the statements you misrepresented from. I suppose I should be flattered that I draw so much of your time and attention, but I am not worthy to be considered in the same company of those Doctors of the Church and saints that you similarly impugn and malign.
Too bad you don't pay as much attention to detail as you do to me. You having to go back seven years plus to find something you could distort speaks for the consistency of my positions and your desperation and need to smear.
To permit an accurate picture of what I actually posted in the context that I posted it I am actually providing the links: Link 1 Link 2
And to answer your question some were priests at the time, another has since been ordained.
...but only as interpreted by the oracle in the mirror.
I know, what WERE you thinking??? Rather than pose "trick" questions so you can set me up for a knockdown, why not ask your question and then accept that I am telling you the truth about my beliefs? I have nothing to hide and I have on more than a few occasions stated there were many things with which I agree with the Roman Catholic Church. Do I get no credit for that, or are you an "all or nothing" kind of guy?
...and I'm not sure of the height, but this curtain was gigantic...and to think torn top down! What picture that paints in ones mind to imagine seeing that occur. It's awesome to ponder on the hand of God reaching at that very moment....
Thank you for explaining in more detail what the Priests offered would never be sufficient....they sacrificed nothing of themselves except 'going thru the motions' of offering animals blood...they could never "cover" anothers sin for they too were as sinful as the people seeking forgiveness.
There were so many things Jesus accomplished in those hours. So many details worth pondering to really understand the connections between the "shadow of things to come" and He who came to "fulfill them all completely and entirely" independent of man. His words on the cross "It is finished" meant exactly as He said.....
It's all completed perfectly and entirely in Him ....now and forever more.... Glory and Hallelujah to His name..indeed!... And that at the name of Jesus every knee will bow.....by faith or by force...but ALL will bow to the King of all kings and Lord of all Lords!...
Don't worry, I pinged Metmom to this reply.
I absolutely DO believe my tagline. I also understand that the "full responsibility" God takes for my or anyone else's life when we have yielded wholly and completely to him is not a guarantee that our lives will be all sunshine and roses. God is NOT Santa Claus, the Good Fairy and the Easter Bunny all rolled into one.
I'm surprised that you would have to ask this, seeing as how your religion teaches we must "take up our crosses" and suffer for Christ in order to even be saved. Just as the Apostle Paul had an affliction that he asked God in prayer to remove three times, he understood when he was NOT healed, that God is able to use our suffering in more ways than one. He definitely does NOT want us to suffer for our sins to be saved - else why did Jesus suffer and die for us? God's "strength" is made complete/perfect in our weakness, when we are weak, HE is strong.
Sometimes, God does use healing and other miracles to bring others to Christ and also as faith "strengtheners" for us. But he is still working in our lives THROUGH sickness and health. Think about this, if God gave everyone a promise of automatic healing for whatever ailed them, how many would give their lives to Christ for the right reasons, and how many would "say" they were for the benefits? Like I said, God is not Santa. Our faith grows when we see how God works ALL things to our good and that means bad things as well as good things - they work TOGETHER for our good and to fulfill his purposes.
Finally, by believing what my tagline says, I am totally surrendering to God and completely believing and trusting in him to provide my needs - both physical and spiritual. The hard part for us is being "wholly yielded". That means no holding back from him whatever he calls for us to do, to give, to say, to be. I trust him THAT much. Do you?
There's no point answering a loaded question and a goofy and insulting one at that. Try again if you really care about an honest answer.
I've often thought of works based salvation as if we are drowning in a stormy sea,a helicopter hovers over us to lift us up,the only requirement on our behalf is that we must first be dry.
That’s a great image!
It’s a blessing and a grace that the Cathplic Church does not teach works based salvation.
I'm just getting started on my day and have a couple minutes in which I will address this one statement at least.
Sorry that it's in the form of a question. How is taking God at His word, not honoring to Him? Taking Him at His word means that I believe what He says. If I don't believe what He says in His word, I consider that equivalent to setting myself up as judge to Him and calling Him a liar.
I believe that Scripture is the inspired word of God to us, that God speaks to us by it and through it. That leaves me in no position to disagree or argue with Him about what it says, especially if it's plainly and clearly spelled out.
More later. Mr. mm is going on with doing stuff without me.....
Peter was married.
I am in the faith of my baptism. I got baptized after I accepted Christ as a testimony of my decision.
And what about Job, and Lazarus? Lazarus died before Jesus did anything about it.
God’s timing and His methods are not ours. His decision on the matter is in His hands and is good enough for me. I will continue to wait and trust Him that He knows what he is doing and has the situation well in hand.
Can I say "it doesn't look that way to me" without it turning into a million post argument?
I believe God wants us to know we are saved from the start.Paul talks about believers in God who have a great zeal for God but who are not saved because they are too busy trying to establish their own righteousness and are not submitting themselves to the righteousness of God.I mean,that somehow sounds a little threatening to me,believers not saved because they are doing what they think the work of God is and not what God says the work of God is.
"These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God." (1John 5:13)
I read that verse as you who believe on Jesus name may know you have eternal life and that you can now do the work of God.
I'm sure you'd agree that it would be tragic that someone could believe and not know where they stand with God.I know I'm ranting but judging by the tone of your posts I'm sure you'll forgive me.
grace and peace to you.
I'm surprised that you would have to ask this, seeing as how your religion teaches we must "take up our crosses" and suffer for Christ in order to even be saved.
Kind of ironic, isn't it?
My outward circumstances are no indicator of God's love for me, my love for God, whether or not He's hearing and answering my prayers, the measure of my faith in any way, my level of spirituality, or sin in my life.
I know plenty of Catholics who deal with their own health issues. Our Catholic neighbor is diabetic. I know of a priest who is blind. There are many people of all faiths who are sick and many people of no faith who are healthy.
And *returning* to Catholicism will do what, exactly?
As far as anyone's words being prophetic, I've been offered advice from every corner, If I'd just do this or that, all my problems would be solved and yet everyone has a different answer. Which one should I listen to?
When Jesus healed, He did it differently each time. Perhaps that's because He wanted us to trust HIM and not the method. God cannot be reduced to a formula and manipulated by us for our selfish benefit.
And so I will say with Job, (13:15) "Though he slay me, I will hope in him;"
I am God's; I have been bought with a price. He lays claim to me through creation and redemption. My life and my times are in His hands. I am His to do whatever He wishes in me and through me. When and how my end comes is His decision, not mine.
In the meantime, Philippians 4:10-14
10I rejoiced in the Lord greatly that now at length you have revived your concern for me. You were indeed concerned for me, but you had no opportunity. 11Not that I am speaking of being in need, for I have learned in whatever situation I am to be content. 12I know how to be brought low, and I know how to abound. In any and every circumstance, I have learned the secret of facing plenty and hunger, abundance and need. 13I can do all things through him who strengthens me.
And let them rescue you.
When that helicopter is pulling you up to safety, what are you going to to?
Try climbing???? What would that accomplish except to probably make matters worse.
Nope, the rescuers rescue you, put you into their basket or harness and you go along for the ride. It’s no limo ride, but you are saved.
Yes, every day. I was just thinking of that old gospel hymn, "Is your all on the altar of sacrifice laid?" Interesting things happen in our souls when we are utterly helpless and needy before Him, and the bottom drops out. Because that does happen.
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