Was Polygamy, in the Nineteenth Century, Started by the FLDS Church, or the LDS Church?

Faith and Reason Forum.com ^ | 2003 | Donna Morley

[Colofornian]

If you stand by the newer second statement, then our argument is over, because I don't disagree with anything else you've said. Maybe you accidentally typed the opposite of what you meant originally.

Athos, what if I had posted a link to a DesNews article contending that Joseph Smith's son -- Joseph Smith III -- should not be linked with Lds "prophets?"

What if I had hinted that not only Joseph Smith, III "continued" in Joseph Smith's lineage as a "prophet"...but so did...
...two of Joseph Smith's grandkids, Frederick and Israel -- both of whom also served as rLDS "prophets" like Joseph Smith, III...
...as did two of Joseph's great-grandkids, W. Wallace Smith and Wallace B. Smith...

Here, you can read all about those Smiths + the two newer rLDS/Community of Christ "prophets": History of the Community of Christ

You see, first wife Emma Smith didn't head West with Brigham & Co. They formed a new re-organized Book of Mormon-based group.

You see, Athos, there's been contention for 160 years as to who the REAL Lds prophets were to be upon Smith's death.

If you vociferously objected to such a "hint" -- that would show you weighing in and playing "favorites." You would be weighing in vs. FREEPER restorationists like John McDonnell and telling him to his face that, "No, to hint that these Smiths above or McMurray or Veazey were/are 'prophets' in the line of Joseph Smith is a 'lie' because the rLDS only represent 2% of Mormonism and they are an 'offshoot.'"

Well, what if I told you these restorationists think that Brigham Young & his gang of followers were the offshoots?

Are you willing to take sides in this squabble: Who was the true heir apparent to Joseph Smith -- like you've now done with the fLDS?

I just think you might want to be consistent; otherwise, it's pretty ease to 'beat up' on Warren Jeffs & his followers. Let's see how you don that weed-whacker when you start applying it to the Independence, MO-based rLds! (And these guys have never practiced polygamy, baptism for the dead, or becoming gods like the Utah Mormons!)

[guitarplayer1953]

In religious matters. The goverment does not have the right to tell people of faith how to practis their religion. Just because all of you don’t agree with the LDS doctrine it does not give the government the power to tell them , you or I how to worship.

[Godzilla]

Just because all of you don’t agree with the LDS doctrine it does not give the government the power to tell them , you or I how to worship.

So you are endorsing child rape? Jeffs was just sentenced for having sex with a 12 year old 'wife' (among many other pre-teens). That was a part of his worship.

[Colofornian]

What I don't realize eh? Actually i realize and agree with all of that. Why do you assume I don't know or believe it?

See post #61.

If you did realize that, then you would have also realized that you were weighing in on who should be Smith's "prophetic" successors. You would therefore be in a posture to slap down Smith's bloodline as being his successors -- as you would have argued with me had I mentioned Joseph Smith III & his sons/grandsons as being a "continuation" of "prophets."

More minefield-stepping.

[svcw]

OK, then you win the cupie doll. You say one thing, I respond, you say that's not what you said, I respond to that, then you say I missed the point, so I respond to that, then you say I am talking to myself, so here is my response to that. You win the cupie doll, congratulations.

[Mount Athos]

Athos, what if I had posted a link to a DesNews article contending that Joseph Smith's son -- Joseph Smith III -- should not be linked with Lds "prophets?"

As long as you don't misrepresent what an article or denomination says, I don't have a problem with whatever you want to link to or say.

You linked to an article and posted a summary that said exactly the opposite of what it really said, and that's wrong.

That's the only issue here.

You can criticise a group while being honest about what they say.
You can say they don't follow what they say they do, or secretly believe something else, or any other form of critique, as long as you don't lie about what they said in a particular article. I'm familiar with the history of Mormon offshoots, it doesn't change the fact that lying is wrong.

[Mount Athos]

If you did realize that, then you would have also realized that you were weighing in on who should be Smith's "prophetic" successors. You would therefore be in a posture to slap down Smith's bloodline as being his successors -- as you would have argued with me had I mentioned Joseph Smith III & his sons/grandsons as being a "continuation" of "prophets."

I don't see how any honest person could construe my comments this way.

If you scroll back, I explicitly agreed with a person who said all mormonism is bunk. So how can you argue I'm preferring one mormon group over another when I say they're all false?

It makes no sense. No I'm not playing favorites, they're all bunk. Well I guess I would play favorites in favoring Mormon groups that don't molest children

[MarkBsnr]

The goverment does not have the right to tell people of faith how to practis their religion.

What about the Aztecs?

[svcw]

What about Rastafarian's?

[Elendur]

Just wondering if you realize the graphic you posted confirms my point?
///
and you are swatting at mosquitos, while an alligator bites your ...

Smith did the same things Jeffers did, and worse!
WHERE IS YOUR OUTRAGE?

he was a convicted con man (records in NY State),
and committed blasphemy, telling his WIFE,
that is she didn’t accept his polygamy,
GOD HIMSELF would punish her. that, is EVIL.
= = =
... aside from Smith’s arrest and CONVICTION in New York, for working a “magic stone” con, there is much that shows the entire LDS religion to be false. NO evidence in any science for any of the claims.
= = =
“In the meantime, Smith shared to his friend John Bennett his dilemma and the trouble he was having with Emma. He wondered what he should do, and Bennett replied, “This is very simple. Get a revelation that polygamy is right, and all your troubles will be at an end.”5

The Revelation
Joseph didn’t waste any time. In 1843 he sat down and wrote a command from the Lord that Emma would be destroyed if she didn’t “receive all those that have been given unto my servant Joseph.” If she didn’t obey this command, not only would the Lord destroy her,
///
and guitarplayer1953 apparently thinks MUSLIMS should be allowed to beat wives and have sex with 9 year old children and OWN slaves. because that IS permitted in their religion.

i have MANY Mormon friends, who i admire and respect.
they are GOOD people, who deserve the TRUTH.

i think it is terrible, that they don’t know the truth, that Smith was a CONVICTED con-man, who LIED to his followers.
Science hasn’t just found no evidence supported Smith’s weird archaeology, it actually DISPROVES it’s specificic claims about Egypt, Hebrew language, etc.
...the gold tablets even have direct quotes from the KING JAMES BIBLE.

[Mount Athos]

Smith did the same things Jeffers did, and worse! WHERE IS YOUR OUTRAGE?

HI ELENDUR!!!!

I think you are very confused if you think I am defending Joseph Smith in any way.

To be clear, I think he was a sex pervert who created a religion in part to justify his rampant adultery.

I hope this clarifies any ideas you have somehow got that I approve of Joseph Smith or Mormonism.

[Elendur]

If you scroll back, I explicitly agreed with a person who said all mormonism is bunk. So how can you argue I’m preferring one mormon group over another when I say they’re all false?
///
sorry. i understand now. you aren’t defending anything, except the principle of truth. i respect that.

and i agree. even against Islam, i try very hard, to be very very accurate. (and generally i only use information from their OWN literature.)

[guitarplayer1953]

My outrage is that the government told them how to practice their religion.

[guitarplayer1953]

What about them? You all have fallen into the trap of the colonial days. You can have religious freedom as long as it is Christianity and not any thing weird. You ask about the rastaman what about the native American Indians? They had been here for thousands of years and the white man comes along and says you must worship our God.

[guitarplayer1953]

Did I say that? Did I say that child rape was ok? I said that the government demanded that they worship the way everyone else did. The day will come and it will not be long and the government will be telling us all how and who to worship with the threat of death.

[svcw]

You can have religious freedom as long as it is Christianity and not any thing weird.

Source.

[guitarplayer1953]

They burnt witches

[svcw]

Ok, so let me get this correct. Because lunatics burned witches centuries ago, you stretch that to also mean unless you practice Biblical Christianity you cannot practice anything. How do you not vomit from your constant spinning.

[guitarplayer1953]

How am I spinning you asked a question and I gave an answer. How about those good Christians back east who took contaminated blankets from the hospitals a gave them to the Indians?

[svcw]

Good lord, stop while you still might have some sanity left.