Posted on 08/12/2011 12:23:37 PM PDT by markomalley
The five teenage girls might look like they’re in a normal class, eagerly reading their textbooks and answering their teacher’s questions diligently.
But the textbooks are Bibles and the girls all have crosses instead of protractors, as they train to become exorcists - real exorcists who fight demons, curses and evil spells.
‘People do look a bit surprised when I arrive,’ admits graduate exorcist Brynne Larson. ‘When people call for an exorcist, they don’t picture a 16-year-old high school girl.’
But Brynne, from Phoenix, Arizona, is one of a new breed of qualified teenage demon slayers, who answered a call when the Church made the admission of there being a worldwide exorcist shortage.
But despite drastic efforts, supply has still not met demand for the controversial ceremony.
(Excerpt) Read more at dailymail.co.uk ...
“I find your assumptions very flawed in this subject area.”
You assume too much; much too much.
“You seem to be trying to make my perspective out to be absurd.”
Not at all. I find your statements reckless.
Here is what I mean by Christian counseling. Lets say I had an issue like grief over death of a loved one and needed help. Based on my discernment I would seek out Quix’s help not OpusatFR’s help.
This isn’t about counseling.
This is about the claim ““Experienced pastors, deacons, elders and even laymen and women did quite well at discerning the difference between demon possession/oppression and mental illness”
It is completely and utterly irresponsible for any clinician to claim that a layman can diagnose the difference between mental illness and possession.
~Utterly and completely reckless and irresponsible!
INDEED. VERY WELL PUT.
THX.
Brash at time, I’ll own.
Reckless . . . Nope.
YET, In many cases, even reckless would be better than the very starchy kosher yet utterly destructive treatment many hurting people get from the mental health profession.
If you’ve never read any of Thomas Zsaz, he could be quite eye-opening. I bristled at him, at first. I had to eventually realize, he was spot-on accurate in a list of ways.
Few professions like the truth about themselves.
I wouldn’t be surprised if eternity will show that Bob Larson’s groups will have delivered many thousands more individuals from emotional, psychological and spiritual bondage and into a fuller life in Christ than all the shrinks of all types put together.
And essentially, for free. vs very high prices on the other side.
The sad fact is that when one subtracts out placebo effect etc. virtually all the anti-psychotics and anti-depressants—particularly the latter . . .
are simply NOT EFFECTIVE for most people.
And, they have horrendous side effects that are often somewhat subtle at first.
I used to support things like the common anti-depressants where depression was chronic and long standing.
I don’t any more. There’s too much research to the contrary. Much is available on the web about such.
Sometimes for a period of a few weeks or months, something like that may be useful in a particular individual’s life in order to give them the greater capacity to overcome the . . . overlay in their stinking thinking that the depression constitutes . . . such that they can then begin to alter habits of thinking and more TAKE EACH THOUGHT CAPTIVE.
RESEARCH HAS DEMONSTRATED THAT COGNITIVE BEHAVIORAL THERAPY IS SIGNIFICANTLY SUPERIOR to meds for DEPRESSION—EVEN CHRONIC LONG STANDING DEPRESSION.
1. It is longer lasting in effectiveness.
2. There’s no destructive side-effects.
3. It’s healthier and empowering for the individual in terms of their self respect, self-confidence etc.
4. It’s more freeing in terms of the robust nature of its effectiveness.
Thanks for your kind words.
Not at all.
The RESEARCH (35+ or so years ago) WAS QUITE CONCLUSIVE.
It’s simply a fact.
You’re simply uninformed and wrong on that score.
And, when it was a serious mental health issue vs a demonic issue, ALL the better pastors et al referred to a mental health professional quite responsibly.
“YET, In many cases, even reckless would be better than the very starchy kosher yet utterly destructive treatment many hurting people get from the mental health profession.”
Stop deflecting.
Your statement is the issue, not Dr. Zsaz nor your wholesale attack on clinicians. I have no idea what “starchy kosher” treatment is other than another of your obfuscations, or an attack on the medical treatment of the mentally ill.
“““Experienced pastors, deacons, elders and even laymen and women did quite well at discerning the difference between demon possession/oppression and mental illness”
Reckless. I wouldn’t expect a layman to distinguish between
hebephrenic schizophrenia and possession or any of the many biologically induced mental disorders.
~And neither should YOU. ~And certainly, neither should a gaggle of teenage girls who resemble nothing more than a modern day Salem witch hunt.
I’m done with this thread.
For a year or two, I was part of a San Diego house based church headed by a former Methodist MD and his wife who’d been brought into ‘Charismania’/Pentecostalism.
Mental health professionals and pastors referred some of their most hopeless folks to the church from all over Southern California. A surprising number of such folks were made whole and became overcoming healthy Chrisitans in good relationships with their loved ones and holding down productive jobs.
Derek Prince had taught at the church for a period of days if not weeks, IIRC.
Much of the operation involved deliverance prayers.
But that was not all. Folks were divided up into ‘spiritual families’ of 3-4 households each. And each week, one household was on the ‘hot seat’ in terms of processing with prayer and Biblical counsel whatever had gone on with those household members the weeks since their last being the focus.
People were assigned homework and/or new ways of relating, thinking, speaking and expected to earnestly work at such. They did.
Given that the approaches were Biblical and Holy Spirit really WAS involved, people got dramatically better. In many cases, the mental health profession had UTTERLY FAILED such individuals for 10-20 years or more.
Yes, the group eventually became ingrown and fell off the cliff. But for a period of years, they did many people tremendous good—with lay persons as the leaders.
I think you are minimizing if not wholesale laying aside the
capacity and willingness of Holy Spirit to bless
WHOSOEVER WILL
with sharp anointed discernment, wisdom and knowledge in such matters.
I’ve seen HIM do it repeatedly.
I’ve seen laymen give a mental health assessment slicing between the ‘bone and the marrow’ much more accurately than most of my famous supervisors could have done—and usually in a lot less time.
The first thing a competent psychiatrist will do, when a patient presents, is order a thorough physical examination to rule out the significant number of diseases which have psychiatric symptoms.
Nowhere do I see that recommended by any of the exorcism group on this thread. For that reason alone, this thread is, in my nursing opinion, dangerous. Anyone who relies on adolescent girls for diagnosis and treatment is potentially in grave danger. Even in the rare case of demonic oppression or possession (much rarer) adolescent girls, whatever their spiritual gifts, are not qualified to diagnose or treat anyone.
Laymen are also not qualified, no matter how many tongues they speak in. Self-described internet therapists are despicable.
That’s a very fascinating article.
It is pretty much where Pentecostal Christianity has gone to these days. I’ve encountered that kind of thinking more times that I care to recall.
Thanks for the link.
Exorcists for hire by the hour raises more than a few red flags.
Then there’s his Demon Test® for only $5.
This stinks of con.
Very foolish ...
“I’ve seen laymen give a mental health assessment...”
You’ve allowed laymen to assess and diagnose?
It that what you are stating on this thread?
You have allowed laymen to do this with your knowledge?
I don’t mean medical students in Q&A or rounds.
Are you telling us that YOU allowed a LAYMAN to ASSESS and DIAGNOSE?
??HELLO ???
Getting one’s exercise primarily from jumping to conclusions may be faithfully copying my mother’s chronic habit . . . however, I don’t recommend it.
1. We are NOT talking about DIFFERENTIAL DIAGNOSIS here! Sheesh!
2. We are talking, essentially, about a very generalized assessment/discernment about
A) Is this individual suffering from demonic influence beyond their personal ability to deal with it? It doesn’t matter whether it’s possession or oppression.
B) Is this individual also suffering from some essentially mental illness apart from whatever may or may not be going on vis a vis demonic influence?
C) Is this individual suffering essentially or mostly from a mental illness having more or less nothing to do with demonic influences?
That’s not very sophisticated in terms of DIFFERENTIAL DIAGNOSIS. Up thread you accused me of deflecting. Are all your mirrors shattered?
4. This was before I began my PhD program, toots. I had NO supervisory control or authority over any aspect of the church groups or functioning. I didn’t “LET” anything happen. Sheesh!
5. Does it take an elevator to get off your high horse?
I’ve been human in such a way, as well—more times than I’d care to recall.
I think it’s an epidemic FR infection . . . or a net wide infection.
And, given the givens, I’ve noticed an INCREASING personal inclination to grab the jawbone of a donkey and let The Lord sort em out.
I Gotta insure that’s THE LORD’S HATRED OF EVIL vs my own self-righteous pique, however.
I pretend I’m getting better at that, by His Grace.
Maybe so.
The onset/post-menstruation thing can make young girls say and do some bat-crazy things. Salem, Mass. in 1697 comes to mind.
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