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To: one Lord one faith one baptism

“it isn’t a matter of 400 v. 1”

Yes, it is. There is no verse saying baptism in water is required for forgiveness of sins and eternal life. There is one verse that COULD be interpreted that way, but it does not have to be.

And there are HUNDREDS of verses saying we are saved by grace thru faith...

11He came to his own, and his own people did not receive him. 12But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God, 13who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God. - John 1

32And John bore witness: “I saw the Spirit descend from heaven like a dove, and it remained on him. 33I myself did not know him, but he who sent me to baptize with water said to me, ‘He on whom you see the Spirit descend and remain, this is he who baptizes with the Holy Spirit.’ - John 1

22When therefore he was raised from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this, and they believed the Scripture and the word that Jesus had spoken. - John 2

3Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.” 4Nicodemus said to him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born?” 5Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ 8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.” - John 3

14And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15that whoever believes in him may have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. 17For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God. - John 3

36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him. - John 3

23But the hour is coming, and is now here, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for the Father is seeking such people to worship him. 24God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.” - John 4

41And many more believed because of his word. 42They said to the woman, “It is no longer because of what you said that we believe, for we have heard for ourselves, and we know that this is indeed the Savior of the world.” - John 4

24Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life. - John 5

28Then they said to him, “What must we do, to be doing the works of God?” 29Jesus answered them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent.” - John 6

Of course, I could go on and on. There is no way to reconcile these verses with the idea that a sprinkling of water makes us live. We respond to God in faith, and live. Or not, and die. Water does not save you from sin and death. The only baptism that does that is the baptism of Jesus Christ in the Holy Spirit:

13For in one Spirit we were all baptized into one body— Jews or Greeks, slaves or free—and all were made to drink of one Spirit. - 1 Cor 12

“Are you infallible when you interpret the Scripture to teach that baptism is not for the forgiveness of sins and receiving the Holy Spirit?”

Is your Pope infallible in what he proclaims? Yes - IF what he proclaims is in line with the Word of God. And NO - if he differs from the word of God.

Are we given new life by baptism in water? Or by faith? If you say baptism, you are wrong. This is the explicit and inescapable teaching of God: “For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.”

1O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? It was before your eyes that Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified. 2Let me ask you only this: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law or by hearing with faith? 3Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh? 4 Did you suffer so many things in vain—if indeed it was in vain? 5Does he who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you do so by works of the law, or by hearing with faith— 6just as Abraham “believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness”?

7Know then that it is those of faith who are the sons of Abraham. 8And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, “In you shall all the nations be blessed.” 9So then, those who are of faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith.” - Galatians 3


134 posted on 08/14/2011 1:43:46 PM PDT by Mr Rogers ("they found themselves made strangers in their own country")
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To: Mr Rogers

my mother always told me not to answer a question with a question, didn’t yours tell you the same?

either your understanding is infallible or it isn’t, why can’t you answer yes or no.

i suspect you are not infallible and therefore i will stick with what the Holy Spirit has led Christians to believe and teach for 2,000 years.

we seem to have gone in circles several times, so i will leave this thread and pray the Holy Spirit enlighten you to the truth.


139 posted on 08/14/2011 7:36:48 PM PDT by one Lord one faith one baptism
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