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To: Houghton M.

Which verse are you referencing that shows you cant get into Heaven without the Church? In fact, your first statement that Jesus’ body is the Church and that you cant drive a wedge between Jesus and his Bride is not a comparison of like things.

Are you speaking of 1 Cor 12? The way I read it, Paul is telling the Corinthian church that everyone has a responsibility within the church, no matter how “important” it looks to outsiders. It does not say that to be saved, you must get there through a specific church. All it does is recognize that the “church” or followers of Jesus, encompasses all believers and needs all believers. Paul does not attempt to make an affirmative proclamation on the role that a specific church makes in your salvation.


175 posted on 07/15/2011 1:31:00 PM PDT by Raider Sam (They're on our left, right, front, and back. They aint gettin away this time!)
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To: Raider Sam

No matter what verse I reference, you won’t agree with the interpretation of it that I would give.

That you can’t see the centrality of the Church throughout the NT (try Ephesians, Colossians, Acts of the Apostles for starters) then you won’t see the meaning of specific verses.

This is what is called invincible ignorance—someone just “can’t see it.” It happens all the time in all sorts of ways. Anybody who’s been married very long knows that sometimes one’s spouse just can’t see what you are talking about. No amount of argument will convince her.

Ditto for politics. Some liberals are devious and dishonest, but a lot of people who disagree with us conservatives “just can’t see” what we see. You can put it right in front of their eyes and they just can’t see it.

Jesus spoke about this when he instructed the 70 disciples: if you come to a place where they “just don’t get it, shake off the dust of your feet and move on.”


197 posted on 07/16/2011 5:11:27 PM PDT by Houghton M.
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To: Raider Sam

Oh, and by the way, perhaps you missed the part about “getting into heaven only through the Church” in which some people get into heaven through the Church even though they never had anything to do formally with the Church here on earth. Anyone who is saved, even if he never met a Christian or heard about Christ, if he is saved by obeying the voice of Truth that God engraved in our hearts (Rom 1), is saved by Christ in and through Christ’s Bride the Church, even though this person has had nothing to do with the visible Church here on earth.

So, “you can’t get into heaven except through the Church” includes those who’s “through the Church” happens through Christ’s mysterious action in this cosmos. Where Christ acts, Christ acts with his Bride. Marriage is forever and it is a real union that cannot be undone or busted apart. So if you are in Christ you are in the mystical Body, the Church, even if you think you are not and even if you are not part of the visible Catholic Church on earth.


198 posted on 07/16/2011 5:16:19 PM PDT by Houghton M.
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