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To: piytar; All

You are correct. we are brothers in Christ.
the Pope has affirmed that we will see Protestant brothers in Heaven.

but, the original statement, did NOT say ALL were enemies. (and, it also said “Jews”, but i noted NO ONE objected to that...)

“...such human enemies have included ...”

and certainly SOME of each of those groups, have been enemies.

any Protestant who calls me brother, i join in saying “Jesus is Lord”. but, MANY protestants have attacked me and my child, and told us we are going to Hell.

...and i am honored to know many Protestants and Baptists, who are BETTER Christians than me.
but, i do not include Luther in that.
if you read his OWN words, he is a hater of Jews beyond compare. a hater of science. and quotes from him about women, are beyond insulting, compared to what the Bible teachings about wives and women in Ephesians, Corinthians, and Proverbs 31.

http://articles.exchristian.net/2002/04/martin-luther-quotes.php
http://www.positiveatheism.org/hist/quotes/luther.htm

Most Baptists I know, respect Jews and Israel.
but if one like Luther, says their houses should be burned, etc., then yes, i DO call them an enemy of the Church of Jesus.

again, the original statement said “includes”, it did not say “all”.
and we DO need more Christian unity. which is why i respect ANY Christian, from any church, who doesn’t tell me that my child is going to Hell, for being Catholic.

(my child took communion at the Papal Mass. it was a perfect day. until we left the stadium. and people with BULLHORNS and large signs were saying all Catholics go to Hell, and the Pope is the anti-Christ.
HOW would you like to explain that, to YOUR child ?!?)


32 posted on 06/30/2011 8:20:14 PM PDT by Elendur (the hope and change i need: Sarah / Colonel West in 2012)
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To: JLLH

a Baptist school, is the only non-public school i can afford.
my child has come home in tears more than once, because of the hatred of Catholics expressed there.
(they don’t know my child is Catholic.)

i asked my child, and they NEVER condemn or criticise Islam, which IS the religion of Satan himself.

i don’t personally know ANY Catholic who hates Baptists.
NOT ONE !
but even in the military when i was on funeral honor guard for a year, there was constant anti-catholic remarks.
i have personally experienced MUCH hate FROM Baptists.
yet even within the past few years, i have respectfully attended services with Baptist friends at their church.
...i freely admit, many of them are BETTER Christians than me, with a better chance of gaining Heaven.

And now, when there are almost 2 billion Muslims, is when we MOST need Christians of all churches, to unite and say “Jesus is Lord”.
and you will forgive me, if i think the Episcopals and Anglicans returning not individually, but as entire churches, is a good thing. And i pray soon the Orthodox will also soon reunite, with what i believe is the Universal church of Jesus.


34 posted on 06/30/2011 8:34:34 PM PDT by Elendur (the hope and change i need: Sarah / Colonel West in 2012)
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To: Elendur

“(and, it also said “Jews”, but i noted NO ONE objected to that...)”

Because without Christ no one gains Heaven and with the exception of Messianic Jews, Jews do not accept Christ. No one has hope of Heaven unless Christ is their personal Savior. Regardless of any good works they do, great things, membership in a specific denomination - be it Catholic, Methodist, Lutheran, Episcopalian, Baptist, or whatever — no assurance of Heaven whatsoever without Christ.


41 posted on 06/30/2011 9:40:40 PM PDT by JLLH
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To: Elendur

“but, the original statement, did NOT say ALL were enemies. (and, it also said “Jews”, but i noted NO ONE objected to that...)”

That bothered me too, but I chose to respond to the freeper who was offended. Now that you’ve raised the point, I will say this:

IMHO, the Old Covenant is still valid. God is not allah who abrogates itself. A promise by God is valid from when it was made to both the start and end of time.

This from a believer and (admittedly failed) follower of the New Covenant. But I’m trying...


42 posted on 06/30/2011 9:41:02 PM PDT by piytar (The Obama Depression. Say it early, say it often. Why? Because it's TRUE.)
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To: Elendur

Sorry, I meant flawed, not failed...


43 posted on 06/30/2011 9:45:23 PM PDT by piytar (The Obama Depression. Say it early, say it often. Why? Because it's TRUE.)
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To: Elendur
I appreciate your generosity of spirit in accepting others as Christian brothers and sisters. I am deeply sorry you have had to face such ungenerous actions of those who claim to know the Lord. My sense is that they either do not know him the way they should or they are sadly misguided. No one was ever won to Christ by hate or by force.

I also hope you realize that when I criticize the doctrines of your church, I am not attacking you personally. I fear many here are unable to tell the difference.

46 posted on 06/30/2011 9:53:35 PM PDT by boatbums (my cat erased my tagline)
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To: Elendur; piytar
but, i do not include Luther in that. if you read his OWN words, he is a hater of Jews beyond compare

Most Baptists I know, respect Jews and Israel. but if one like Luther, says their houses should be burned, etc., then yes, i DO call them an enemy of the Church of Jesus.

Then, I'm afraid, you will have to condemn one of those adored in this article posted. King Louis IX of France, AKS St. Louis was guilty of the same things against Jews. From:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_IX_of_France

Louis IX took very seriously his mission as "lieutenant of God on Earth", with which he had been invested when he was crowned in Rheims. Thus, in order to fulfill his duty, he conducted two crusades, and even though they were unsuccessful, they contributed to his prestige. Contemporaries would not have understood if the king of France did not lead a crusade to the Holy Land. In order to finance his first crusade Louis ordered the expulsion of all Jews engaged in usury and the confiscation of their property, for use in his crusade. However, he did not cancel the debts owed by Christians. One-third of the debts was forgiven, but the other two thirds were to be remitted to the royal treasury. Louis also ordered, at the urging of Pope Gregory IX, the burning in Paris in 1243 of some 12,000 manuscript copies of the Talmud and other Jewish books. Such legislation against the Talmud, not uncommon in the history of Christendom, was due to mediaeval courts' concerns that its production and circulation might weaken the faith of Christian individuals and threaten the Christian basis of society, the protection of which was the duty of any Christian monarch.

52 posted on 06/30/2011 10:18:32 PM PDT by boatbums (my cat erased my tagline)
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