Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

To: betty boop; boatbums; Alamo-Girl; Mind-numbed Robot; stfassisi; P-Marlowe; Cronos; Quix
Dear Sister Betty,

First, "righteousness" is a legal term that is related to the word translated "just" (dikaios, dikao, etc.). Using that root word, we'd get "justness" instead of righteousness. That then fits with "justification" and with a God of "Justice."

Therefore, we are dealing with (1) the difference between being made "just" when we're already sinful (unjust), and (2) living justly once we've been made just (justified.)

Since we are sinful by nature, we cannot make ourselves "just." We can pay the penalty (prison, capital punishment) but it's a life eternal sentence of separation from God, who must stand for "Justice" or the creation is not ruled by Justice. Therefore, since we are unable ever to do anything to make ourselves just before God, we need a substitute player, a pinch-hitter, a relief-pitcher.

There are difficulties with the justice of asking one who is incapable of helping himself to help himself. (You don't ask the crippled man to run the marathon.) On the one hand, justice demands the penalty, but on the other, justice also demands capability. The incapable man must have a champion, a reliever to stand in for him. Jesus was that champion. He stood in perfectly for us and then, out of pure Love, gave His life's blood to correct the conflict in Justice. The Just died for the unjust to bring us to God.

That is the first part of "justness." We had to be made just, because we were inherently unjust.

The next part has to do with our behavior since the moment we became justified. As those redeemed by the blood of the Lamb, we are called to live a just life. We have a "new mind" and we are to "live for the Spirit rather than for the flesh."

The difficulty in this, of course, is that we STILL have this inhenently sinful flesh with which we were born. We are, therefore, to live for the Spirit rather than for the flesh. We are to love God with our whole heart, soul, mind, and strength.

Sometimes, though, we find that the things we detest in our "new mind" we end up doing. As Paul says, "Who shall save us from this body of death? I thank God for my Lord Jesus Christ."

Therefore, the life of the Spirit pursues holiness...even pursues perfection, as the high calling of God. Yet, we stumble.

Good thing it's grace, first to last.

Thank God, though, for those who follow the Spirit, for by it they will put to death the deeds of the flesh.

We are saved and justified by grace through faith.

We are preserved, as well, by grace...even when we stumble. "If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins, and cleanse us from all unrighteousness." Written by John to already Christians.

287 posted on 07/22/2011 4:07:08 PM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! True Supporters of our Troops PRAY for their VICTORY!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 286 | View Replies ]


To: xzins; betty boop
Thank you very much, xzins, for your well done answer. I am sorry I could only get around to replying until now.

I agree with you on this and I hope, dear Betty Boop, that xzins has answered your basic question. I was certainly speaking about our “state” before Almighty God and our inability to earn or merit the justification that he imparts to us by his grace through faith.

I object to anyone and any dogma that implies or hints at the need of human actions that must, somehow, contribute to the finished work of Jesus Christ on our behalf. When he made the final sacrifice for our sins, he said, “It is finished.”. The debt of the sins of all mankind against God had been paid by his shed blood - only blood makes an atonement for the soul. God requires that we agree with him about our sinfulness, our need for a redeemer and our acceptance of the gift of eternal life he gives to us when we trust in him.

I, in no way, meant to suggest that one who has accepted Christ as Savior can rest in a “hammock” and have no responsibilities before God to live holy lives that bring honor and glory to him. Quite the contrary! As xzins has said so well, “We have a “new mind” and we are to “live for the Spirit rather than for the flesh.”. It is only when we have become born again into the family of God and indwelled with the Holy Spirit that we are even able to live righteously for God.

God did not save us so that we have a license to sin, and any person who says he did is a liar. Just as Ephesians 2:8-9 says, “For by grace are ye saved through faith and not of yourselves, it is the gift of God not of works lest any man should boast.”, verse 10 continues to remind us, “For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.”. God expects those he saves to be renewed in spirit and to walk worthy of the privilege of being his own and he enables us to do just that.

288 posted on 07/22/2011 9:10:44 PM PDT by boatbums ( God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 287 | View Replies ]

To: xzins; betty boop

Here is a good understanding of Merit- as understood in Catholicism

http://www.saintaquinas.com/Justification_by_Grace.html

Merit is defined by the Catechism as “recompense owed by a community or a society for the action of one of its members, experienced either as beneficial or harmful, deserving reward or punishment (CCC 2006).” In Catholic doctrine, merit is a result of God’s fatherly decision to associate man with the work of his gift of grace. It must be emphasized that the original work of justification and sanctification must be attributed to God himself. Man cannot merit the initial grace of the Holy Spirit. It is a free, undeserving gift of God. However, by the grace of Baptism, as adoptive sons and daughters of God, we can merit for ourselves additional graces of sanctification through Christian charity and good works. It is always the gift of God’s love that brings forth merit through charity. St. Augustine proclaims the Church’s position in his cry to God, “You are glorified in the assembly of your Holy Ones, for in crowning their merits you are crowning your own gifts.” Prayer is a central part of Christian life, for it is through prayer that we can merit the increase of grace and theological charity for others in the Mystical Body of Christ as well as ourselves.

We must not believe that, “God owes us something.” For the gift of grace is exactly that, a free and undeserved gift. It is only by our acceptance of grace through Baptism, that we can associate our works with that of grace from God. St. Paul tells us, “And if sons, heirs also; heirs indeed of God, and joint heirs with Christ: yet so, if we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified with him (Romans 8:17)”. St. Paul emphasizes that by the grace merited from Jesus Christ’s suffering, death and resurrection we can be co-heirs with Christ and participate in merit by grace. Thus good works done in faith, hope and love for God, after justification of Baptism, can merit further increases in grace, justification, and sanctification. We participate with God in good works because of our love for him as our heavenly Father.

The Redemptive Role of Suffering

Christ desires for us to participate in his Passion, and thus suffering within the Body of Christ has a redemptive role. Because baptized Christians are part of the mystical Body of Christ, Jesus Christ the head of the body asks its members to participate not only in his resurrection and grace, but also in the suffering of his Passion. St. Paul firmly evinces this doctrine, “Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up those things that are wanting of the sufferings of Christ, in my flesh, for his body, which is the church (Colossians 1:24).” He also says, “And if sons, heirs also; heirs indeed of God, and joint heirs with Christ: yet so, if we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified with him (Romans 8:17).”

This does not mean that Christ’s redemption is lacking, or that his suffering was not enough for the redemption of the world. It only means that we are chosen to offer up our sufferings for the expiation of the temporal punishment deserved by our sin and the free participation in the life of Christ. Christ merits our redemption and forgives our sins but the punishment and penance for our selfish actions must still be. Paul’s letter to the Colossians notes that by offering our own sufferings for the body of Christ, we can make up for those members of the body of Christ whose sufferings are lacking. Thus the body of Christ, the Catholic Church, offers the collective suffering of its members for the expiation of temporal punishment and follows in the Passion and sufferings of the Head of the body of Christ, Jesus Christ.

This does not mean that Catholics go out of their way to look for suffering and hardship. Suffering, in itself, is a result of sin and evil manifested by the fall of mankind. Such acts as fasting, prayer and the offering of hardships to the Lord are beneficial. However, purposeful undue suffering and pain can in fact be a sin. In fact, the Church does attempt to correct and alleviate the temporal suffering of mankind (such as natural disaster victims, the hungry, the persecuted etc.) What Paul is really talking about is the unavoidable sufferaing that is a part of temporal life. A good Christian will accept the hardships of life that can not be alleviated. With good Christian humility and charity a suffering person will offer their suffering for the Body of Christ and its head, Jesus Christ.


289 posted on 07/23/2011 6:13:21 AM PDT by stfassisi ((The greatest gift God gives us is that of overcoming self"-St Francis Assisi)))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 287 | View Replies ]

To: xzins; boatbums; stfassisi; Alamo-Girl; Running On Empty; Cronos; Mind-numbed Robot; metmom; ...
First, "righteousness" is a legal term that is related to the word translated "just" (dikaios, dikao, etc.). Using that root word, we'd get "justness" instead of righteousness. That then fits with "justification" and with a God of "Justice."

I prefer "justness" to "righteousness" as by far the more apt descriptive word; for as you point out, it better "fits with 'justification' and with a God of 'Justice.'" FWIW.

Plus the adjective "righteous" was pretty fully debased in the secular culture back in the 1960s, when it was common to hear it used to express approval/satisfaction for the outcome of something selfish and/or trivial, as in "That's righteous, man!"; e.g., that your girlfriend isn't pregnant, or you got front-row seats at the upcoming Janice Joplin concert, etc., etc.

As you note "just" is the usual translation of the Greek dikaios, etc., which in Greek thought was associated with the idea of the eternal order of Justice in the cosmos — Dike — violations of which require a penalty that human beings cannot evade....

And you rightly point out that it is Jesus Christ Who pays this penalty for us, and why:

Since we are sinful by nature, we cannot make ourselves "just." We can pay the penalty (prison, capital punishment) but it's a life eternal sentence of separation from God, who must stand for "Justice" or the creation is not ruled by Justice. Therefore, since we are unable ever to do anything to make ourselves just before God, we need a substitute player, a pinch-hitter, a relief-pitcher.

There are difficulties with the justice of asking one who is incapable of helping himself to help himself. (You don't ask the crippled man to run the marathon.) On the one hand, justice demands the penalty, but on the other, justice also demands capability. The incapable man must have a champion, a reliever to stand in for him. Jesus was that champion. He stood in perfectly for us and then, out of pure Love, gave His life's blood to correct the conflict in Justice. The Just died for the unjust to bring us to God.

I never meant to suggest that there is a route to salvation through works alone. There is no salvation outside of Jesus Christ, the Word of God, Logos Alpha to Omega, our Savior, our Hope, the Source of Truth and Justice in our lives and of all Creation, heavenly and earthly; Who Is our coming Judge. Rather, I was thinking about James 2:17:

Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. [KJV]

We have Faith by God's Grace. If we truly live in Christ, our works are the natural expressions of that Faith. This is not the same as saying that we can do works so as to win "brownie points" from God that can be cashed in at Judgement Day. [Though there are apparently people who believe this.] Such works are active, on-going expressions of our love for God, signifying that we love Him with our whole heart and soul and mind and strength.... Thus we stand in Faith before our God.

He is seeking relationship with His children. This is a dynamic condition requiring response from the human side. It is active, not passive. And it expresses in acts, works of charity and justice....

Just a final note re: Grace, from the Catholic perspective:

Grace is the free and undeserved help that God gives us to respond to his call. The Church teaches us that grace moves us to participate in the life of God and moves us to begin and sustain a relationship with our Creator. Grace not only assists us in living the Christian life through purification of our hearts, it literally changes our souls by infusing divine life to heal the wounds of sin. Grace is wrought through the work of the Holy Spirit, and grace is what initially moves our hearts to conversion and repentance. — St. Thomas Aquinas

Do the Reformed churches understand Grace in such terms?

Well, just some thoughts, dear pastor! Thank you ever so much for your beautiful, eloquent, and eminently just essay/post.

291 posted on 07/24/2011 10:36:11 AM PDT by betty boop (We are led to believe a lie when we see with, and not through, the eye. — William Blake)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 287 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson