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To: MarkBsnr
"Further, would the following qualify as an "Infallible" declaration of a Pope?"

Furthermore, we declare, we proclaim, we define that it is absolutely necessary for salvation that every human creature be subject to the Roman Pontiff.

"If not, why not."

Excellent question.

One of the best explanations that I have found is this:

Also, consider that when Unam Sanctam was enacted:
1) There really and ideally was only one visible Church in the mind of the Catholic Church.
2) Unam Sanctam makes NO pronouncement on the validity of the existence of other Churches as such.
3) Today, the Catholic Church recognizes that there are other valid Churches aside from the Catholic Church proper, however they are imperfect and a departure from the Faith (my addition).
4) This current recognition does not affect Unam Sanctam in any way. It was, and always has been, meant for Catholics and for any who leave the Catholic Church having been once convinced of its Truth. It has never been meant for those born outside the Catholic Church (as the situation of these is mitigated by the principle of invincible ignorance).

I think that this is valid, given that this was written a quarter of a millennium before the Reformation started to take off.

I presume you took these arguments from the same "Catholic Answers" site from which I also found the following" " Roman Catholic theologians are divided on the question of whether this is ex cathedra or not. The Catholic Church's magisterium has made no official pronouncement about the infallibility of this statement."

To my knowledge, by this standard, the Catholic Church's magisterium then has made no official pronouncement concerning the infallibility of any Pope's statement.

Further, for (your?) arguments to be valid one must assume that any "infallible" Papal Declaration is valid for that moment only, subject to constantly changing conditions and definitions.

Very weak my friend.

228 posted on 07/02/2011 12:13:36 PM PDT by OLD REGGIE (I am a Biblical Unitarian?)
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To: OLD REGGIE
I presume you took these arguments from the same "Catholic Answers" site from which I also found the following" " Roman Catholic theologians are divided on the question of whether this is ex cathedra or not. The Catholic Church's magisterium has made no official pronouncement about the infallibility of this statement."

To my knowledge, by this standard, the Catholic Church's magisterium then has made no official pronouncement concerning the infallibility of any Pope's statement.

Further, for (your?) arguments to be valid one must assume that any "infallible" Papal Declaration is valid for that moment only, subject to constantly changing conditions and definitions.

Very weak my friend.

For the conditions of the time, the Church does make pronouncements and decisions. As human society changes, so does the Church change in how it interacts with it. Not as weak as it might seem.

232 posted on 07/02/2011 4:44:14 PM PDT by MarkBsnr (I would not believe in the Gospel if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so..)
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To: OLD REGGIE
I presume you took these arguments from the same "Catholic Answers" site from which I also found the following" " Roman Catholic theologians are divided on the question of whether this is ex cathedra or not. The Catholic Church's magisterium has made no official pronouncement about the infallibility of this statement."

To my knowledge, by this standard, the Catholic Church's magisterium then has made no official pronouncement concerning the infallibility of any Pope's statement.

Further, for (your?) arguments to be valid one must assume that any "infallible" Papal Declaration is valid for that moment only, subject to constantly changing conditions and definitions.

Very weak my friend.

For the conditions of the time, the Church does make pronouncements and decisions. As human society changes, so does the Church change in how it interacts with it. Not as weak as it might seem.

233 posted on 07/02/2011 4:44:14 PM PDT by MarkBsnr (I would not believe in the Gospel if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so..)
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To: OLD REGGIE
I presume you took these arguments from the same "Catholic Answers" site from which I also found the following" " Roman Catholic theologians are divided on the question of whether this is ex cathedra or not. The Catholic Church's magisterium has made no official pronouncement about the infallibility of this statement."

To my knowledge, by this standard, the Catholic Church's magisterium then has made no official pronouncement concerning the infallibility of any Pope's statement.

Further, for (your?) arguments to be valid one must assume that any "infallible" Papal Declaration is valid for that moment only, subject to constantly changing conditions and definitions.

Very weak my friend.

For the conditions of the time, the Church does make pronouncements and decisions. As human society changes, so does the Church change in how it interacts with it. Not as weak as it might seem.

234 posted on 07/02/2011 4:45:40 PM PDT by MarkBsnr (I would not believe in the Gospel if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so..)
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