Did Mary Have Other Children?

Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry ^ | Unknown | Matt Slick

[BenKenobi]

“However, I don’t usually play such guessing games.”

Which comes from philo - “love”

and adelphoi - brethren.

Incidentally the same word, adelphoi, is the one used in Matthew 12 by Christ. We understand brothers in philadelphia to be broader than simply blood brothers, because that’s what the greek means.

In the same fashion, this is what Christ is saying here. That’s why adelphoi is used.

So you are right, Christ had a very specific idea that he was trying to get across. However, the idea he was using doesn’t back your interpretation.

[Quix]

WRONG again.

[BenKenobi]

“MEANING IS AS USUALLY TRANSLATED BY FAIR-MINDED QUALITY TRANSLATORS”

Quix, the word is adelphoi. Adelphoi always means ‘brethren’. Are you telling me we should call it the city of blood brotherly love?

Are you telling me that Christ’s true brethren are not those who love the Lord?

[RnMomof7]

Then by that logic why are not Joseph "earlier" children from a first marriage traveling with there Father and Stepmother "Joseph & Mary" at Jesus birth?...

Bingo!!

[RnMomof7]

Simple answer — No. If anyone would have touched her, the Ark of the New Covenant, they would have died just like the people who touched the Ark of the Old Covenant died.

The ark was a type of Christ..trust me Joseph did not die when he made love to his wife..

It might be wise to look and see EXACTLY why God struck Uzzah and Ahio dead is not because Mary should not be touched..

Go back to numbers , there you will find that God made conditions on moving HIS dwelling place .

God ordered that the Ark was to be transported in a certain manner.. Kohathites, were the only priests who were allowed to move the tabernacle, however they were not allowed to see or touch holy items

God had ordered that poles went to be on either side of the Ark, it was to be carried by Kohathites on their shoulders.

Uzzah and Ahio violated the command of God by putting it on a cart pulled by oxen

They were blessed that God did not strike them dead the moment they broke His command.. but God showed Mercy and allowed them to take it by cart .When they reached out and grabbed the Ark that was their second violation of Gods command..

Ya know Catholics seem to want a goddess so much that they take types of Christ and force Mary into them..

[Titanites]

Ya know Catholics seem to want a goddess so much that they take types of Christ and force Mary into them..

Ya know, anti-Catholic Calvinists are so bitter they start to believe the lies they tell.

[OLD REGGIE]

You evade the point. What about this whole ‘binding and loosing’ thing. Keys to the kingdom of heaven?

Seems pretty clear to me that Christ is appointing Peter to an office. Best of all, it’s scriptural. I thought protestants believed that scripture was the primary source for their beliefs.

You want Scripture?

Matthew 18:
[1] At that time the disciples came to Jesus, saying, "Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?"
.
.
.
[18] Truly, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
[19] Again I say to you, if two of you agree on earth about anything they ask, it will be done for them by my Father in heaven.
[20] For where two or three are gathered in my name, there am I in the midst of them."

"Seems pretty clear to me that Christ is appointing Peter to an office."

What office did He "appoint" Peter to that was exclusive to Peter?

[Alex Murphy]

If anyone would have touched her, the Ark of the New Covenant, they would have died just like the people who touched the Ark of the Old Covenant died.

Can I call them, or what?

I was thinking 2 Samuel 6 myself. Catholics refer to Mary as the New Ark of the Covenant, after all. Maybe that explains why Catholics believe that Mary remained a "perpetual virgin" her whole life.
-- Alex Murphy, April 15, 2011

....when they came to the threshing floor of Nacon, Uzzah put out his hand to the ark of God and took hold of it, for the oxen stumbled.
And the anger of the LORD was kindled against Uzzah, and God struck him down there because of his error, and he died there beside the ark of God.
-- 2 Samuel 6:6-7

[blue-duncan]

The Philistines took the ark to the temple of Dagon where it remained either in one of the five Philistine cities or in cities in Judah controlled by the Philistines for 20 years. After the successive sackings of the temple in Jerusalem by Egypt, Assyria and Chaldeans, there is no further mention of the ark being in the Temple.

[MHGinTN]

You can collect your prize now.

[OLD REGGIE]

"Let's look at just one of the "authorized" English language Catholic Bibles."

If you could convince us that the English language remained absolutely constant and that word meaning and usage didn't change over the last 500+ years you might have a case for the Church revising Scripture.

Sadly it appears you have difficulty with reading comprehension.

Let me repeat: Perhaps it is time for the one qualified expert in the world to compile the one "perfect" Bible in the original languages and then, at the least, compile the "perfect" Bible in contemporary English. (That would be sufficient for a time.)

Yes, it is true "live" languages change over time and require fresh translation from the "old" from time to time. That is a fact of life.

Alas, poor Reggie. Thy intpinse rapture to tax Church and delate Her is nay young nor doth it draw coil. I couch not testy or a knap not landed, for front perpend Her grave yet.

Funny how the choice of Latin has been proven brilliant over time.

Yes! Absolutely brilliant!

This "brilliance" made it necessary to publish a "corrected" version of The Catechism Of The Catholic Church two years after publication in 1992.

It appears there is a paucity of Latin experts in the Vatican, especially those qualified to translate into other languages.

BTW, what "original" sources did Jerome use to compile the Latin Vulgate?

[GOPJ]

Matthew 1:24-25 - "And Joseph arose from his sleep, and did as the angel of the Lord commanded him, and took as his wife, and kept her a virgin until she gave birth to a Son; and he called His name Jesus." • Matthew 12:46-47 - "While He was still speaking to the multitudes, behold, His mother and brothers were standing outside, seeking to speak to Him. And someone said to Him, "Behold, Your mother and Your brothers are standing outside seeking to speak to You." • Matthew 13:55 - "Is not this the carpenters son? Is not His mother called Mary, and His brothers, James and Joseph and Simon and Judas?" • Mark 6:2-3 - "And when the Sabbath had come, He began to teach in the synagogue; and the many listeners were astonished, saying, "Where did this man get these things, and what is this wisdom given to Him, and such miracles as these performed by His hands? "Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, and brother of James, and Joses, and Judas, and Simon? Are not His sisters here with us?" • John 2:12 - "After this He went down to Capernaum, He and His mother, and His brothers, and His disciples; and there they stayed a few days." • Acts 1:14 - "These all with one mind were continually devoting themselves to prayer, along with the women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with His brothers." • 1 Cor. 9:4-5 - "Do we not have a right to eat and drink? Do we not have a right to take along a believing wife, even as the rest of the apostles, and the brothers of the Lord, and Cephas?" • Gal. 1:19 - But I did not see any other of the apostles except James, the Lords brother."

I'm going with 'yes'...

[ctdonath2]

I don’t understand the obsession & fierce insistence that Mary did _not_ have other children. Why would further, normal, motherhood be so bad? What foundational tenets of doctrine be shaken?

Miracles and wonderment are great - and so is normal mundane life. I’d be dismayed if, after all the glorious joy that happened, Joseph were denied a husband’s rightful “knowledge” of his wife.

[ctdonath2]

An extraordinary claim demanding extraordinary proof. Something that profound was recorded re: the Ark, because it was in fact extraordinary. That people interacting with her were not recorded as dying through sudden and extraordinary means upon contact is presumptive proof that it didn’t happen.

If one must follow convoluted reasoning to achieve an absurd conclusion, then the conclusion is probably wrong.

[Natural Law]

"Perhaps it is time for the one qualified expert in the world to compile the one "perfect" Bible in the original languages and then, at the least, compile the "perfect" Bible in contemporary English."

Well, what do you know. Even a blind squirrel can find an acorn once in a while.

That one qualified expert already exists. Its called the Magisterium. Your snipe about the revision of the Catechism only applies to translations of it from the editio typica, the inerrant reference copy.

"BTW, what "original" sources did Jerome use to compile the Latin Vulgate?"

The guidance of the Holy Spirit, the support of his Pope, a first hand knowledge of the language contemporaneous with the writings, the availability of the sub-scriptural writings of the Doctors and Fathers of the Church, a scholars education, and the scrutiny of the Magisterium.

(Fold Reggie, you can't win with the hand you were dealt on this one)

[BenKenobi]

Does Christ give the keys to the kingdom of heaven to anyone else?

[Natural Law]

"...FAIR-MINDED..."

LOL - Is there anyone who doesn't believe the definition of "fair minded" is the one who agrees with him?

[BenKenobi]

“Is not this the carpenters son? Is not His mother called Mary, and His brothers, James and Joseph and Simon and Judas?”

Unfortunately for you, adelphoi is the same word used here.

Again, the word is used to mean his brethren.

[smvoice]

Wow, looks he really got you, OR..! The Magisterium is the “qualified expert”. And what is the Magisterium but an Expert Speculator with a Vatican t-shirt and Rome Decoder Ring?

[OLD REGGIE]

(Fold Reggie, you can't win with the hand you were dealt on this one)

My sense of honor prevents me from playing poker with the incapacitated.

Drink up!