Posted on 05/31/2011 11:34:50 AM PDT by sigzero
Mary was a virgin who was to conceive by being overshadowed by the Holy Spirit and give birth to the Son of God. Few in Christian realms would deny Mary was a virgin and remained a virgin through pregnancy and the birth of Christ. This was the ultimate fulfillment of a prophecy from Isaiah:
Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a Son, and shall call His name Immanuel. (Isaiah 7:14, emphasis added)
However, Mary’s virginity after the birth of Christ can become a heated debate in some circles. Though some may think this is a Roman Catholic versus Protestant view, it is not. Many Protestants, including people like Martin Luther and John Calvin, have held to Mary remaining a virgin for the duration of her life. Let’s look at the issues in a little more detail.
(Excerpt) Read more at answersingenesis.org ...
The Church is not the pillar of truth. Jesus is the Truth. He is the Foundation, the Rock on which the church is built. I am sorry I don’t understand the rest of your post.
Quite true. But "Sola Scriptura" is only for when it's convenient. Otherwise it's, "Of course we assume ..."
>>”Then Philip ran up to the chariot and heard the man reading Isaiah the prophet. “Do you understand what you are reading?” Philip asked. “How can I,” he said, “unless someone explains it to me?” So he invited Philip to come up and sit with him.”<<
I keep seeing this one brought up as a proof that there is to be some sort of church hierarchy, as opposed to believers instructed in the Word that can, through knowledge from the Word, explain it to someone, similar to why a young student needs some adult trained in arithmetic to explain the equations he is seeing. And once some fundamental understanding is created, he is off and on his own, occasionally needing to bounce his interpretations off of other students or teachers. Of course, you can add “prayer” to that group when speaking of the bible.
>What are you talking about. Who denied that we should be baptized?<<
I believe this is called a red herring. :)
the difference is unlike the Mormons or Islam, Jesus established the Catholic Church. Tell me, what authority on earth has the power to proclaim which books are canonical and which ones aren’t? is there one? if not, how do we know we have the correct Bible?
Show where perpetual virginity is taught in the scripture and then you can accuse it’s opponent of taaching a new gospel. In fact, your wording says alot. The gospel or good news is about Jesus not Mary at all. Here you have equated the teaching of Mary’s virginity to the gospel of Jesus Christ. Then you go on to call the detractors of being false prophets.
Wow!!!
what you don’t understand is the Church is the Body of Christ on earth, you can’t say Jesus is the Truth, without saying the Church is the Truth. you can’t seperate them and this is what Protestants don’t understand.
>>God will straighten it out for all of us when we meet. We do agree that Christ was born of a virgin, and that by accepting his sacrifice our sin is forgiven. If He meant for us to have full understanding, we would have it.<<
Although I agree with your post, I think the problem here is that this is a very important issue because the “ever virgin” mary is a foundational teaching upon which other extra biblical teaching is built. It is a little like the story where the speaker gets you to accept a very small thing which is untrue and proceeds to build a very large story/theory that requires that thing for it to be true. I like to nip these things in the bud before they get legs. But, alas, this got legs long before I was born. At the very least I can try to keep it from getting any further.
When you hijack a thread, you want to be a bit more subtle. ;)
So I guess we are the way and the life as well? What you are saying is heresy. We are not Jesus. We can proclaim the Truth but we are not the Truth. We are followers of the Truth. I understand that believers are the body of Christ.
yes, but when these so called “believers” start finding doctrines in the Scriptures unknown to the Church for 1,500 years, you can be sure a spirit is leading them, it’s just not the Holy Spirit.
too bad Calvin and Luther didn’t have your incredible insight into the Scriptures.
>>The Perpetual Virginity of Mary has been taught from Apostolic times, and recorded since the second century in Christian writings, and was universally held among all Christians until 1500 years later. That Mary was not a Perpetual Virgin is a new false gospel that comes with the heresies attendant with protestantism.
It is you who proclaim a new false gospel. Therefore the onus is on you to prove from scripture that Mary had relations with Joseph after the birth of Christ.
That you cannot do.<<
Seems to me the Jewish leadership of Jesus’ day took a similar position.
So nobody actually said anything about this? You are just interjecting it into the conversation to get everyone off topic?
>>The Perpetual Virginity of Mary has been taught from Apostolic times, and recorded since the second century in Christian writings, and was universally held among all Christians until 1500 years later. That Mary was not a Perpetual Virgin is a new false gospel that comes with the heresies attendant with protestantism.
It is you who proclaim a new false gospel. Therefore the onus is on you to prove from scripture that Mary had relations with Joseph after the birth of Christ.
That you cannot do.<<
It’s kinda funny that my wife was a devout catholic for a long time and yet had never known this teaching. It seems to be one of those things that is just thrown out there and most catholics don’t think about it very hard. Kinda like they HAD TO DO before Vatican II since so much of what they were told was in a language they did not understand.
The Muslim leaders can make the same claims you made. It is no more a valid argument there than it is for a “Christian” church.
now you want to seperate Jesus from His Body? that is heresy! we who have been properly baptized have been baptized into His death and are in Him. false teachers can’t change that fact and we have been here for 2,000 years.
>>this is why Jesus gave us a visible Church, we are meant to have unity in the Church and not argue over the Scriptures.<<
I disagree. Iron sharpens iron.
Are you suggesting then that the New Testament is NOT Scripture? Even the Catholic church agrees it is! And, I hope you realize that “The Bible is all we need!” was my personal comment based on the verses previously quoted. When did I claim it was a verse from Scripture? You are being willfully deceitful.
>>the difference is unlike the Mormons or Islam, Jesus established the Catholic Church.<<
So you claim. The mormons claim similarly, as do the muslims, but for a different god.
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