Why do you think that God would lie?
Because you says so?
Perhaps I should have been more precise and said "but I believe it to be so". My current understanding of scripture leads me to believe that Mr Camping is wrong.
Well, then how do I know who's right?
Well, I'm sorry but I'm afraid you're going to have to decide that for yourself! But a good start would be to consider the arguments put forward by both and see. Mr Camping has put forward what he believes to be true, and I have done the same.
So, you know all that's true because it's in the Bible and the Bible is true because you know it is? Sounds a little circular.
Well actually I was more pointing out that "a man reaps what he sows", which is another very poetic way of saying that there are consequences to your actions. If Mr Camping claims that what he is doing is in accordance with God's word, then the consequences of them should be very beneficial.
? Okay, he could be wrong on one date, but what makes you think he is wrong on everything else?
I never said that I thought he was wrong on everything else. I'm sure he's very right on many things. But I think he's wrong to set dates for the second coming.
But that's just reality. You don;t know that because the Bible says so.
I never said that I did know that because the Bible says so. Just because I am a Christian doesn't mean that I don't think, or reason, or learn about the world from other sources.
Do you have to meet a quota? Is there a scorecard or a critical score that you have to reach for your "salvation"? Doesn't that mean that salvation is your doing?
You're being facetious. I never said any of those things. I don't HAVE to do any of them, at least not to secure my salvation. The point is that people who think the world is coming to an end at such and such a date don't really care much about the present.
And what if they are right? Normally only 1/3 of all Americans vote. Does that mean we don't get a government? Do you think you not voting will have an impact on when the world shall end?
Well obviously if they are right its not going to make any difference whether any of us vote! The point is that they stop trying.
Why? You think gravity wold work better if we doubted it every now and then?
Faith is being certain about that which you cannot really know. I don't know exactly how gravity works. Neither do the finest minds on the planet. I trust that it does, based on my experience that it always has before! In the same way, I trust that when I flip a light switch the light comes on. I've studied electical engineering, and I know about ohms and volts and impedence, but I don't really know how electricity works. Nobody does. We all of us work on "faith" all the time.
But if you are certain why do you need new ideas?
Because I am a finite Human Being and my understanding is imperfect. New information alters you, if you let it. I personally have learnt huge amounts from conversations on these very boards. Even if they are opinions I disagree with, the very fact of refuting them forces me to think through exactly what I do believe, and to my shame I sometimes a lot of it I really haven't thought through as well as I might. Sometimes I have had to change my mind, based on the arguments others have cogently put to me. This is nothing to be ashamed of. It is how the democratic process works after all! There's nothing wrong with being ignorant, only in remaining so.
I never said I thought God would lie.
Perhaps I should have been more precise and said "but I believe it to be so". My current understanding of scripture leads me to believe that Mr Camping is wrong.
That's your faith and I respect that. However, if you want me to believe you you must show me that other Christians are wrong and you are right. I deal with a lot of Christians and they all have different versions of 'official truth'.
I never said that I thought he was wrong on everything else. I'm sure he's very right on many things
It's possible that I misunderstood you. If you read what you wrote it came across that Camping was just plain wrong, period.
I never said that I did know that because the Bible says so. Just because I am a Christian doesn't mean that I don't think, or reason, or learn about the world from other sources
But when I ask Christians how do they know something they point to the Bible. And when I ask how do they know the Bible is telling them the truth, they ask me why do I think God would lie?! Other people believe in other holy books. How do I know whose holy book is really God's word that must be accepted as true? Who should I believe and why?
You're being facetious
Why am I being facetious? You said you had to do good things, etc. My question was reasonable: how many good things do you have to do? And if you don;t have to do them, why did you say you had to do them? Or at least that's what I thought you said (I can't go back now and check).
Faith is being certain about that which you cannot really know.
That makes no sense to me whatsoever.
I don't know exactly how gravity works. Neither do the finest minds on the planet. I trust that it does, based on my experience that it always has before!
Gravity you can put to a test. God is a different story.
Because I am a finite Human Being and my understanding is imperfect
But then how can you be certain in your faith (which is not knowledge)? It seems that you are now saying you are certain in your ignorance but uncertain in your knowledge? Is that what you are saying?