An Open Letter to Harold Camping (From James White, the man who debated him)

Alpha and Omega Ministries ^ | 05/24/2011 | Dr. James White

[SeekAndFind]

On Open Letter to Harold Camping of Family Radio

Dear Mr. Camping:

In July of 2009 you and I engaged in a debate on the Iron Sharpens Iron radio program concerning your teaching that the church age had ended and that Christ would return on May 21, 2011. I trust you recall our exchange. I am also aware that you have at least seen my book, Dangerous Airwaves: Harold Camping Refuted and Christ's Church Defended. I have been seeking to warn people about your teachings, sir, for about a decade. I know others have been warning the church about you longer than I.

Mr. Camping I am writing to seek your repentance and the most God-glorifying outcome of the debacle of your failed May 21, 2011 prophecy/teaching. I am not writing to engage in debate with you. The time for debate ended on May 22, 2011. It is now time to urge you to repent and seek to undo the massive damage you have done, first and foremost, to the cause of Christ.

Let me first list the items you need to repent of, openly and publicly (for you are a public person, and your teachings were disseminated all around the world).

You need to repent of your abuse of the Bible, based upon claims of latter-day opening of understandings no one else has, allegedly, ever had, based upon the horrific misreading of the books of Revelation and Daniel. The Bible is not a code book, Mr. Camping, and it never has been. You have attacked the grammatical/historical means of honoring the intention and meaning of the original authors, and in so doing, have turned the Bible into your own private playground where you, and you alone, set the rules. You decided that certain numbers have certain meanings, and you alone decided which numbers could be added to others. You told your audiences that you were simply teaching the Bible, when you were doing nothing of the sort. Unless you honor the intention of the original authors, which means doing difficult exegetical work, studying languages and backgrounds, you have no business saying you are representing the Bible. This has been your primary error for decades on end, and I know I am not the first minister of the gospel to seek to correct you about this. Your utterly fallacious means of interpretation of the Bible has led to the mockery of the Christian faith all around the world, and you alone must repent for your willful rejection of the correction offered by many to you over the years.

You need to repent of your repeated date-setting, and your twisting of those Scriptures that plainly state that we do not now know, and will never know, the date of the coming of Christ, until it happens. You have been proven wrong multiple times now, and it is time for you to admit that you have been in error every single time you have argued that we can, in fact, know.

You must repent of your many unbiblical teachings, teachings which have grown out of your rebellion against Christ's Church. First and foremost, you must repent of your attack upon the church. You must return to the church (I would suggest the local Christian Reformed Church from which you made your original defection) in repentance and seek to place yourself under their care, repenting for your schism. You must openly and publicly abjure your teaching that Satan rules in the churches, and that all ministers of the gospel since 1988 are, in fact, servants of Satan. You must call all listeners of Family Radio to return to their churches with repentant hearts. You must instruct them to seek to learn to read the Bible aright, to seek to interpret the Bible in light of its original meanings and intention, not as a secret, gnostic code-book.

You must likewise abjure and repent of the other false teachings you have been promulgating, including, but not limited to, such teachings as Jesus having died twice, your new annihilationism teaching, etc. You once held to mainly orthodox views, but, when you refused godly counsel and went out on your own, you planted the seeds of your own destruction, which have now sprouted, over night it seems, into the crop of condemnation you now rightly face.

You must likewise repent of the perversion of the gospel you have been teaching, wherein you have not only removed repentance and faith under the guise of "works" (neither are works, both are the gifts of God to His elect by His Spirit, but remain part and parcel of the gospel call), but you clearly, in these last days, added belief in your own May 21, 2011 teaching to the gospel itself, saying that those who did not believe this teaching would experience eternal torment. You have been preaching a false gospel, Mr. Camping, and you must repent for this.

The time for haggling and debating has passed, Mr. Camping. Your teaching has been disproven, and your only hope is to be found in complete repentance from your false teachings. I fear if you seek to rescue your reputation, you will end your life under the wrath of God. Your unwillingness to listen to counsel has already caused great damage to the cause of Christ. You have one final chance for redemption, sir. Do not remain stiff-necked. Repent and turn from your ways.

James White Alpha and Omega Ministries

[Religion Moderator]

The above remark is related to a previous conversation with kosta50 - i.e. concerning when he would be treated by other posters and by me like an atheist rather than an agnostic.

His justification for closing his mind is irrelevant - this is a Religion Forum. Preaching happens.

When he is unconvinced or doubtful, he would be treated like an agnostic.

[kosta50]

this is a Religion Forum. Preaching happens

Preaching is fine. I was merely stating that his hopes of preaching to me to convince me are not convincing. They are not convincing me either way. If I were convinced that there is no God I wouldn't be here. But his particular attempt is not working to convince me.

I don't know what it would take to push me in either direction. Do you? What does it take to convince someone to be an Orthodox Christian as getoffmylawn is (as I was), as opposed to be a Reformed Calvinist, or a Mormon, a Jew, a Hindu, an atheist? I don't know.

I treat everyone's preaching with respect, but I respectfully refuse to accept everything that is dished out. After all, it's one MAN's view of what or who God is. Maybe there is an individual out there who will push the right button, I don't know. You want to give it a try, RM?

[getoffmylawn]

I am aware of the previous conversation. I've been following closely. Kosta has made it very clear that he is not an atheist.

Atheists believe and proclaim there is no God. Kosta has NEVER once said, "There is no God." He has gone so far as to say (paraphrasing here), "If everyone lived their lives according to Orthodox Christianity it would create heaven on earth." That's far from atheist talk.

Accusing someone of believing something they have never said they believe sounds dangerously close to mind reading to me.

[Vanders9]

The evidence so far shows that we are driven and controlled by the physical makeup of the world.

Which evidence would that be? The physical evidence of course. So you accept that evidence, but you wont accept evidence that you cannot see, feel or touch. Is the evidence of personal witness, the evidence of historians, the work of theologians of less validity?

Our own makeup determines what we see, feel, etc. We don't see, smell or smell what dogs can. And dogs cana't talak because they have no vocal chords. Our own size and weight and makeup determines which aspects of the physical world matter and which don't. To an insect gravity has a different effect than to us. But to an insect surface tension is a heck of a lot more pertinent then to us.

Thanks for the science lecture.

Now, you don't have to believe me.

On the contrary, I believe you absolutely. I've never denied the physical evidence we see around us. I dont really know why you try and convince me when I accept it. I guess it makes your case stronger. The difference between us is that you consider only that evidence when you make your judgements.

[Religion Moderator]

My remark was for your edification.

As long as you are saying you are doubtful or unconvinced you can expect to be treated like an agnostic.

It's when you say that your mind is made up that the other posters and I will treat you like an atheist.

[Vanders9]

If your last statement is true, then I will say kosta50 is the biggest mind reader on these boards. He has constantly, and consistently misinterpreted my arguments and, by thus associating them with ridiculous statements, successfully wriggled out of the points being made. The latest is this attempt to make out that im listening to voices in my head, and that I am indulging in sophism. The point I was trying to make, and the only point I have really ever been trying to make, is that the way we view and understand the world around us is through a combination of many things, of which reason and logic is only one part. People like kosta may CLAIM that they are only following hard physical evidence, but in reality they are just as subject to emotions and passions as anyone else. They are a part of being Human. He accuses me of circular reasoning. I put my hand up straight away. Yes my argument is circular. But, his argument is just as circular. He just doesn't realise it. Even circular arguments have to have a root, a basis. When all is said and done, the basis of kosta's argument is his own understanding.

But moderators are being called in now, and that to me means that more heat is being generated than light. So therefore I am going to bow out of this. I was getting more than a little tired of both me and the faith I hold to so dearly being insulted and deliberately slighted anyway. Respect for someone's position involves more than merely stating such every now and again. "I respect your faith but you are creating it all out of your head, implication you are mad" is not enough. Actions speak louder than words.

I am not a preacher. I admit it. I am sorry I have not been able to make a better and more convincing job of stating my position and upholding my faith. The fault is no doubt mine.

I apologise to anyone here I may have inadvertently upset by my clumsiness.

[kosta50]

It's when you say that your mind is made up that the other posters and I will treat you like an atheist

RM, I remain unconvinced either way; that makes me doubtful, not so much in God (I really try to leave God alone), but of MEN. Obviously, nothing that I would know for sure is God has revealed himself to me, so I depend on those who claim he has. But, the truth is, I simply don't know whom to believe. Preaching is fine, and I listen to believers of every flavor including atheists, but I always remember that they are fallible MEN, not God.

And preaching is fine and it happens. But the NT reminds us that not all have been appointed to be teachers, so maybe some people, no matter how much they believe, should try to be fruitful by applying their faith to something for which they have been more gifted then preaching.

getoffmylawn—thanks. Your memory is fascinating. I have never said that God doesn't exist. If I did I would be lying. But sometimes I do wonder if some people's God exists, and how do they know that.

[kosta50]

V, my aim was not to insult your faith. If I did I sincerely apologize. I was critical of your reasoning and uncovninced by your arguments. I am sorry it turned out that way.

I don't think anyone called the mod. He or she reads what people post, and simply made a comment. It's a thankless job.

[Religion Moderator]

You are correct. No one called me. I am continually reading Religion Forum posts looking for things that might be a problem.

[Vanders9]

The NT also states we should all be prepared to give a defence of our faith and of our certainty in God’s love, and that I have obviously signally failed to do.

[Vanders9]

V, my aim was not to insult your faith. If I did I sincerely apologize. I was critical of your reasoning and uncovninced by your arguments. I am sorry it turned out that way.

I'm sorry kosta, but I'm afraid that after that latest batch of answers I simply don't believe you.

It's ok for you to be critical and unconvinced by my arguments - I obviously need to brush up on my apologetics - but when answers are sidelined, misinterpreted and misrepresented on that scale, with a load of snide comments added, it's frankly a waste of my time and dishonoring to the Lord I serve to continue. Even given that I am not the best at explaining myself on paper, I just cannot accept that someone as obviously intelligent as yourself is not doing that deliberately.

I genuinely hope you find the answers and the peace in your life that you purport to be seeking. Sayonara.

[Vanders9]

Fair enough.