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To: Belteshazzar
But that is not the way it worked for the apostles,

This is fun! What about Thomas,

John 20:24-29 (New International Version) Jesus Appears to Thomas 24 Now Thomas (also known as Didymus[a]), one of the Twelve, was not with the disciples when Jesus came. 25 So the other disciples told him, “We have seen the Lord!” But he said to them, “Unless I see the nail marks in his hands and put my finger where the nails were, and put my hand into his side, I will not believe.” 26 A week later his disciples were in the house again, and Thomas was with them. Though the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you!” 27 Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe.” 28 Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!” 29 Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”

did he not come to faith due to a personal encounter with the Risen Lord Jesus Christ? Can this be a model for us today?

723 posted on 05/25/2011 8:40:45 AM PDT by marbren
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To: marbren; GiovannaNicoletta

A neat thing about the disciples in the doubting Thomas story is that they practiced reflective listening as Our Lord Jesus did so well and many of us on FR could try to learn. They had their conviction that the Lord Jesus Christ is risen and they understood that Thomas did not share it yet. They did not yell Thomas you must believe us! They gave Thomas his space for a week. What Love they had for him and did not try to control him. Their words could not and would not convince him. Thomas had to meet the Lord Himself. This is a model for Christians today also. We must meet and have a relationship with our resurrected Lord Jesus Christ. It is possible and is my experience.


724 posted on 05/25/2011 8:51:03 AM PDT by marbren
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To: marbren

The Gospel for Quasimodogeniti (as newborn babes), the 1st Sunday after Easter, TLH p. 69.

Marbren, expressions like “personal encounter with Jesus” or “born again” are limited in their usefulness and, at best, best, express some aspect of the greater truth. The writers of the Holy Scriptures, whom the Holy Spirit used according to their gifts and experiences, all teach the same doctrines, Old Testament and New, but they teach them in words characteristic of themselves and appropriate to their time.

Thomas believed in no small measure because he, like the rest of the 12, had been brought up in a believing home, trained in the way he should go. He was one who recognized that Jesus was the Christ precisely because of what Jesus preached and did, that is, all that the prophets said He would do. Did he understand all things right away? No. Did he have his doubts, fears, pride etc. etc.? Of course, just as we all do. Did he have to contend with the devil, the world, and his own fleshly weaknesses and lusts? Of course, that is the lot of fallen man. Him Jesus chose to be one of the twelve and trained him in the course of the three and a half years of His ministry to be an apostle. One could say that Thomas attended a moving seminary with one Professor.

But just as Jesus so often said to His own people when He did some kind of miracle that they were not to tell anyone until “the Son of Man is risen from the dead,” (He didn’t do so with Gentiles, ever) so too would Thomas be unable to fully understand until the crucifixion and resurrection, until the Christ had done all things (”it is finished”) and thus brought to light the meaning and intent of the prophet Scriptures. Even then, the disciples had their problems, as do we all. Look at Matthew 28:16-17. It is shocking, and yet not: “Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, to the mountain which Jesus had appointed for them. When they saw Him, they worshiped Him; BUT SOME DOUBTED.” Remember, this is the eleven!

The struggle we all have with the devil, the world, and our own flesh, of which the Apostle Paul spoke so eloquently, is very real. The solution is always repentance and faith, always Word and Sacrament, always still more meditation of the life-giving Word of God, the pure, clear fountain of Israel, as Luther often called it, whose entire content and purpose is to testify of Christ to the sin-darkened human heart and mind. (John 5:39)


725 posted on 05/25/2011 9:32:54 AM PDT by Belteshazzar (We are not justified by our works but by faith - De Jacob et vita beata 2 +Ambrose of Milan)
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