Posted on 05/18/2011 2:31:49 PM PDT by Salvation
>>But they aren’t souls.<<
No they are consciences or spirits. Where does it say that ONLY souls go to heaven? That there is nothing else?
If anything, pets would have an easier time than humans, because they don’t sin.
We will have to agree to disagree.
:-)
An animal doesn’t have to have a soul to be resurrected. It is within God’s power to recreate the animal exactly as it existed when it died. Complete with it’s nature and memories.
“That is a straw man argument. No body connects Jesus death with the ultimate fate of animals. “
Fair enough, I see what you are saying.
Heaven is a place where God dwells; a place of sinless joy; where men enjoy eternal life, praising and worshiping God.
You think the actual animals (say my dog Joe) go to heaven when they die; but, that isn’t because Jesus died for his sins, but just because he didn’t sin in the first place.
One wonders if every tree, fish, bug, blade of grass, or bush goes too? They did not sin.
How about non-living things, i.e. rocks and minerals? They don’t sin.
Elements?
It’s perfectly possible, God can do anything. But he doesn’t reveal any concern about it or intention for it; the Bible is essentially the story of God redeeming mankind.
Nothing in creation is sinning except man. But God says He is making a new heavens and a new earth. The old one is being cast away, right?
The Hebrew word for soul is nephesh. It is used in Gen 1:20 (prior to Gen 2:7 - the example you give) as ‘life’ - “...the moving creature that hath life”
Studying the Hebrew nephesh as used over 700 times in the Bible shows it refers to animals and humans. I am not a Bible expert, so I find it confusing as to whether animals have souls.
But he doesn’t reveal any concern about it or intention for it;
Yes. That is all we can say. All else is pure speculation. But it is fun to speculate, a little.
“An animal doesn’t have to have a soul to be resurrected. It is within God’s power to recreate the animal exactly as it existed when it died. Complete with it’s nature and memories.”
No, it doesn’t HAVE to have a soul, but it would seem to me God would mention it somewhere in the 66 books of Scripture if it was a part of His plan to resurrect dead pets.
God can do perfectly well whatever He wants, of course. But the resurrection of pets sounds pretty far fetched, when we read the prophecies of the resurrection, pets are not mentioned, and again, I think it sort of cheapens things.
You limit the power of God if you say that pets are not in heaven.
“No they are consciences or spirits.”
Well, how does God describe them in His word? Part of creation; animals.
I’m not so sure either way....
On a semi-related note, I’ve always been puzzled why Eve expressed no dismay when the serpent spoke to her. Was there a time before The Fall when some animals could speak? Sounds nuts, I know; but Eve sure seemed to take it in stride.
God saved the animals from the Great Flood by commanding Noah to take them into the Ark. Why wouldn’t he have a special place for them in Heaven? Just pondering...
“Was there a time before The Fall when some animals could speak? Sounds nuts, I know; but Eve sure seemed to take it in stride.”
It’s open to speculation. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with speculation as long as it’s owned as speculation.
No, it doesn’t HAVE to have a soul, but it would seem to me God would mention it somewhere in the 66 books of Scripture if it was a part of His plan to resurrect dead pets.
That seems so presumptuous to me. He promises the Bible is truly inspired. Never do I see he promises it tell us the COMPLETE truth if everything there is. God keeps his secrets. We have eternity to explore them.
“That seems so presumptuous to me. He promises the Bible is truly inspired. Never do I see he promises it tell us the COMPLETE truth if everything there is. God keeps his secrets. We have eternity to explore them. “
I don’t think it’s so presumptuous. Scripture is largely concerned with the way of salvation, and the entry into heaven. To have the “salvation” of animals unmentioned when the main focus of the whole Book is the history of God’s redemption of His creation is a pretty big omission.
Again, I wonder if you follow your logic: the feral cats? The squirrels? The whales? Trees? Firewood? Carrots? Rocks? Trace minerals? Will all go to heaven as created?
Or only beloved pets, who we project souls on because we are lonely and we love them?
>>Well, how does God describe them in His word? Part of creation; animals.<<
And? Where does he say that they will not be with us in heaven?
It has occurred to me to wonder, as I watched my dog sitting at his ease, is he aware of God’s presence? Is he worshiping in his own way. Would he be amazed to know that my sin prevents me from apprehending God as he does?
>>Again, I wonder if you follow your logic: the feral cats? The squirrels? The whales? Trees? Firewood? Carrots? Rocks? Trace minerals? Will all go to heaven as created?<<
Why not? Why do you limit what God can do?
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