Posted on 04/29/2011 4:06:03 PM PDT by Gamecock
“Well, he stated “they” get upset when asked about it. Now you’re asking him to say why “they” get upset? Wouldn’t “they”, the ones who get upset, be the ones to ask?”
You’ve lost the bubble. I never asked why “they” get upset. I asked what was meant by asking the question in the way that it was asked - in which one is required to accept the premise of the question which is unsubstantiated.
I want to know why the poster would ask a question like that - it reflects a therapist-load of bitterness and spite, because the poster pretends not to know what he/she is doing.
The question needs to be re-framed - as a statement which would be: “All churches but Catholic ones are racist”. I submit that is a ridiculous statement, but what can you do but challenge these things when you see them?
I Implied no such thing I am pretty sure I stated it outright. I have seen Prot churches started over haircuts, yeah that is right hair cuts. Setting the racism aside for this post, why are there so many different Protestant churches. I am certain that there are some that are offshoots about doctrinal issues, but not 30,000 different ones. Face the facts you folks don't like the pastors preaching, one of you rents a store front gets some folding chairs, an over heard projector, and you got a brand new church. Couple of weeks later and some doughnuts for fellowship and you got a brand new denomination. And this is not what i experienced in one church singular, it is what I have seen time and time again, through my own direct observation, and seen in the churches (Plural) of friends and family.
Again the answer is not implied. Protestants are racists, and that is not just from me. Dr. Martin Luther king Jr. Said that 11:00 am Sunday morning is the most segregated hour in America (http://www.wmich.edu/library/archives/mlk/q-a.html about half way down the article), Dr. David Jeremiah repeated that comment at least once during one of his broadcast radio sermons.
If you are going to take shots at me then you need to take shots at both these fine men as well.
BTW saying that I am "afraid to elaborate" and calling me "spineless" is an Ad Hom attack and is not attacking my argument. I think you need to have a refresher in logical fallacies.
Oh, rly? Reading "poster's" mind? That's against the rules.
Discuss the issues all you want, but do not make it personal.
“I Implied no such thing I am pretty sure I stated it outright. “
It’s hard to tell, unless you do state it outright.
But again, unsubstantiated. Just because you saw it, doesn’t mean it generically applies to all churches of any denomination, including Catholic.
“Again the answer is not implied. Protestants are racists”
See, that wasn’t hard to state your position was it? It’s an idiotic position, but at least it’s stated clearly.
Why encode it in a loaded question?
I am pretty sure your priest would disagree with your position. You should ask him, and then let me know if I’m right.
“Oh, rly? Reading “poster’s” mind? That’s against the rules.”
Actually, the poster clarified, and I was correct. The poster states now that “All Protestants are racists”, which was the implication of the loaded question to which I was responding.
How about you? Do you agree with the poster that all Protestants are racists?
“BTW saying that I am “afraid to elaborate” and calling me “spineless” is an Ad Hom attack and is not attacking my argument”
You elaborated, so obviously you are not afraid to elaborate and are not spineless. That, by the way, is not an “Ad hominem”
You have no argument to attack. You simply stated “All Protestants are Racist” which is pretty close to an ad hominem attack - seeking to discredit a person as racist, with no substantiation or no argument against whatever it is that you are so angry about Protestantism over.
the truth is it's own defense. I have seen it and you are arguing that 30,000 denominations occur "naturally", you need to rethink you position, and you need to address that Dr. King and Dr. Jeremiah both stated it long before I did. Very easy for you to state I have no argument when you ignore sources that I directly quoted and cited with internet references.
So Dr's. King and Jeremiah right or wrong?
“So Dr’s. King and Jeremiah right or wrong?”
To use the logic presented by you, they are Protestant and racist, so therefore their beliefs are completely wrong.
“the truth is it’s own defense.”
Again, ask your priest. He would admonish you for not applying the truth.
“I have seen it and you are arguing that 30,000 denominations occur “naturally”, you need to rethink you position,”
You’ve seen 30,000 denominations then? You present no argument only state that you’ve seen Protestants behaving badly and so you switched to Catholicism, expecting unrealistically that the same thing couldn’t happen in a Catholic church.
Again, you need to talk to your priest. Catholics do not believe what you state you believe - namely:
1. That misbehavior among congregants occurs in all Protestant churches (and that somehow Catholic congregations are immune from the same human failings)
2. All Protestants are racists
It wouldn’t be the first time I lost the bubble, BUT my lingering impression is the your post as actually stated was ambiguous.
Any Catholic who says there are no racists in the Catholic church is delusional. In my diocese, Richmond, there were clergy who were pro-slavery and pro-segregation. Not only that, but in many cities a “mixed” marriage was Irish-Italian or Polish-French or what have you.
The Episcopal Church was functionally segregated for quite a while. When the “black church” in Jackson, MS burned in the last century, the (”white”) cathedral invited their pastor and people to join rather than rebuild. They respetfully declined, fearing they would lose their “identity”.
It is not easy to remember that now [we] live, yet not [us], but Christ lives in [us]. Fortunately many of our orders are quite, um, diverse.
Oh well ... Live, love, fail, get forgiven....
“my lingering impression is the your post as actually stated was ambiguous.”
I apologize for ambiguity, but the poster cleared up any misunderstanding. The poster believes “All Protestants are Racists”
You and I agree - these are human failings, not doctrinal issues.
If the poster believes that the same human failings cannot occur in any religious denomination, they will over time be disappointed in them all.
Folks have the freedom to worship as they wish in this country. A congregation can be racist if it wants to be. That’s their problem if it is so - but it’s a human problem, not a theological one.
I found a perfect church but I was afraid to join ‘cause I knew I’d ruin it.
Let me take a quote from my second post to you. I’ll bold it so you can go back and reference it. I have renounced every organized “religion”. Notice the word “every” in there? I don’t need some human “affiliation” of human people to “recognize” anything. You see, it’s Christ Himself I serve and not some man made organization. I sense you are stuck on earthly organizations. They won’t save you son. Only a personal relationship with Jesus, accepting His payment in total for you sins, recognizing Him as your Lord and Savior will do that.
“I found a perfect church but I was afraid to join ‘cause I knew I’d ruin it.”
That would Marxist theology - Groucho Marx....”I wouldn’t belong to any club that would have me as a member”
Are these good men wrong, don't try and use red herring arguments. Make a declarative staement, Have a spine, and I am not going to let this go
RF this a bald face lie, show me where I used the word ALL.
I stated that Protestant churches are segregated,if you want to take that to mean that every member of every congregation is racist, that says much more about you than about my statement.
Got it your one of those people afraid to say which church you belong to. Thanks for clearing that up
“RF this a bald face lie, show me where I used the word ALL.”
I think not. You said literally “Protestants are racists” since you did not qualify it, it is not a “bald faced lie” to say that you meant “ALL”.
If you wish to qualify that you did not intend to brand ALL Protestants with your brush, then feel free to qualify that now.
Your words mean something. That is why I asked you what you meant. Now I ask again - did you mean to qualify which Protestants are racist? If so do so now please.
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