Posted on 04/24/2011 6:40:44 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
Did Christ ever descend to hell?
There are two passages in the New Testament that, taken a certain way, would seem to indicate that he did. One is in Ephesians 4:9 where it says that Christ descended into the lower parts of the earth. This probably means that he descended to the earth, which is the lower parts. The "of" there doesn't mean that he is going under the earth. So I don't think that text warrants the interpretation that he descended into hell.
The other text is 1 Peter 3:18-20 where it says that Christ went to speak to the spirits who are now in bondage. That is, they have died-having lived in the days of Noah-and they are now in bondage; and Christ went to speak to them. Some take that to mean that between Good Friday and Easter Christ went to hell and he preached the gospel there. But I don't think that is the meaning of this text either. I think it means that when these people were alive in the days of Noah, in the Spirit Christ spoke to them through the preaching of Noah; and now they are in prison.
So my conclusion is that there is no textual basis for believing that Christ descended into hell. In fact, he said to the thief on the cross, "Today you will be with me in paradise." That's the only clue we have as to what Jesus was doing between death and resurrection. He said, "Today-this Friday afternoon, after we're both dead-you and I will be in paradise together." I don't think the thief went to hell and that hell is called paradise. I think he went to heaven and that Jesus was there with him.
So I don't say that phrase "he descended into hell" when I recite the Apostle's Creed. But study it yourself and see whether you think there are other foundations for it. As for me, though, I would say that the foundation for that particular sentence in the Apostle's Creed is pretty weak biblically.
God is everywhere and everything. I assume that would mean He could be in two places at one time. ????
To say that God is everywhere means that He is conscious of and operational in all circumstances. And to say that He is everything is pantheism.
Wow Piper takes on Calvin?
8. [CHRIST] “DESCENDED INTO HELL”
But we ought not to omit his descent into hell, a matter of no small moment in bringing about redemption. Now it appears from the ancient writers that this phrase which we read in the Creed was once not so much used in the churches. f431 Nevertheless, in setting forth a summary of doctrine a place must be given to it, as it contains the useful and not-to-be-despised mystery of a most important matter, at least some of the old writers do not leave it out. f432 From this we may conjecture that it was inserted after a time, and did not become customary in the churches at once, but gradually. This much is certain: that it reflected the common belief of all the godly; for there is no one of the fathers who does not mention in his writings Christ’s descent into hell, though their interpretations vary. But it matters little by whom or at what time this clause was inserted. Rather, the noteworthy point about the Creed is this: we have in it a summary of our faith, full and complete in all details; and containing nothing in it except what has been derived from the pure Word of God. If any persons have scruples about admitting this article into the Creed, f433 it will soon be made plain how important it is to the sum of our redemption: if it is left out, much of the benefit of Christ’s death will be lost. On the other hand, there are some who think that nothing new is spoken of in this article, but that it repeats in other words what had previously been said of his burial, the word “hell” often being used in Scripture to denote a grave. f434 I grant that what they put forward concerning the meaning of the word is true: “hell” is frequently to be understood as “grave.” But two reasons militate against their opinion, and readily persuade me to disagree with them. How careless it would have been, when something not at all difficult in itself has been stated with clear and easy words, to indicate it again in words that obscure rather than clarify it! Whenever two expressions for the same thing are used in the same context, the latter ought to be an explanation of the former. But what sort of explanation will it be if one says that “Christ was buried” means that “he descended into hell”? Secondly, it is not likely that a useless repetition of this sort could have crept into this summary, which the chief points of our faith are aptly noted in the fewest possible words. I have no doubt that all who have weighed this matter with some care will readily agree with me.
lots more at the site; could be Piper is only provoking exploration.
Piper hasn’t read the book of Acts.
Well, in the Bible there is talk that when Christ died he went to the Paradise portion of Hell to retrive the spirits of the old testiment prophets and saints to proclaim his victory and took them to Heaven.
RE: Piper hasn’t read the book of Acts.
Can you please briefly tell us about what the book of Acts said about Christ going to hell?
No where is the Scriptures is any part of hell called “paradise”, this is simply an invented definition in an attempt to reconcile misunderstood verses.
Do what? In what later-translated version?
Can you be more specific? This is an interesting thread; but “in the bible” is just too vague. I have heard others use that phrase to justify some position, but usually when asked for a specific citation, they cannot give it. (This is not an attack on you.)
from the 10 th paragraph at the site. In other words, since the phrase occurs after "crucified, dead and buried," not meant to be chronological. But is there a more important summation in the creed of the substitutionary, penal nature of Christ's death, if it the Creed indeed is to be comprehensive?
Most Christians do not understand the difference between Hades/Sheol and Gehenna/Hell/the Lake of Fire. Hell, as we think of it, does not yet exist, but Hades/Sheol does, and it is where the unsaved go when they die, awating the final day when they are thrown into Hell itself (Rev. 20:10, 13-15 explicitly differentiats between Hades and the Lake of Fire, with the former being thrown into the latter).
That Christ descended into Sheol does not mean He descended into Hell.
Wow, so Christ was a sinner? This is complete and total, heretical, blasphemous garbage.
IIRC, you’re referring to Heb. 11-12, correct? Then Christ descended into Hades/Sheol, not Hell. This distinction is not widely understood, but it is clear in the Bible (see, for instance, Rev. 20:14, where it is clear there is a distinction between Hades/Sheol and Hell/the Lake of Fire).
He was “counted among the transgressors.”
Christ took on our sins on the cross, ; go start your own religion if you find that blasphemous.
II Corinthians 5:21
21For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
From the Catechism of the Catholic Church.
633 Scripture calls the abode of the dead, to which the dead Christ went down, “hell” - Sheol in Hebrew or Hades in Greek - because those who are there are deprived of the vision of God.479 Such is the case for all the dead, whether evil or righteous, while they await the Redeemer: which does not mean that their lot is identical, as Jesus shows through the parable of the poor man Lazarus who was received into “Abraham’s bosom”:480 “It is precisely these holy souls, who awaited their Savior in Abraham’s bosom, whom Christ the Lord delivered when he descended into hell.”481 Jesus did not descend into hell to deliver the damned, nor to destroy the hell of damnation, but to free the just who had gone before him.482
634 “The gospel was preached even to the dead.”483 The descent into hell brings the Gospel message of salvation to complete fulfilment. This is the last phase of Jesus’ messianic mission, a phase which is condensed in time but vast in its real significance: the spread of Christ’s redemptive work to all men of all times and all places, for all who are saved have been made sharers in the redemption.
635 Christ went down into the depths of death so that “the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live.”484 Jesus, “the Author of life”, by dying destroyed “him who has the power of death, that is, the devil, and [delivered] all those who through fear of death were subject to lifelong bondage.”485 Henceforth the risen Christ holds “the keys of Death and Hades”, so that “at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth.”486
This author is very confused. "Paradise" or Abraham's Bosom was in Sheol. It was the place of the spirits of the just or righteous dead. The spirits of all dead went to Sheol, just and unjust alike. Sheol descended from the abode of the righteous dead, which was pleasant, even blissful, but imperfect being separated from the presence of the Lord, down through to the depths of Sheol, wherein the rebellious angels and demons were bound in torment and still are.
So, when Jesus Christ told the thief "Today you'll be with me in paradise" while both were being crucified upon the cross, this is what he meant; he was saying that the thief had found redemption by his belief and faith, and a place among the righteous dead, and that He would see him there that very day.
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