Posted on 04/16/2011 7:28:34 PM PDT by RaceBannon
What day was Jesus Crucified? The Bible says WEDNESDAY, not Friday.
Ahh, in order to sound spiritual, there are always those who refuse to do anything but sit back and point fingers at the men who actually have the courage to stand up and fight!
Filoque must have been French...
So are you saying that partial chronological days can count as days in your calculation, or not?
"This only covers two days, however. The third day in the tomb must be accounted for. If we start with the day of Presentation, the 10th being Sunday, and with Passover, the 14th, being the first day in the tomb, the Feast of Unleavened Bread, the 15th being the second, the third day in the tomb would have to be the normal Sabbath day. Christ’s tomb was discovered empty on the first day of the week, Sunday, before sunrise. The three days would have been over for about 12 hours, with the third day ending on the Sabbath Day at 6PM."
Your essay tells us that the resurrection was on the fourth day.
Scripture tells us repeatedly that He rose on the third day.
Your essay does nothing to reconcile this contradiction.
As I said upthread: He DID arise on the third day, the Sabbath. He could not have arisen on Sunday, as He, as the High Priest, has to mark the sheaves EXACTLY on sundown of the 1st day - The sheaves are marked Sunday night, and delivered as a waive offering on Sunday morning. That First Fruits waive offering of resurrected saints were presented some time between His meeting Mary near the tomb (when He wouldn't let her touch him as He was still ceremonially separated), and showing up on the road to Emaus.
The parallel indicator: From the slaughtering of the lamb until the waive offering of the First Fruits, the High Priest must remain sequestered on the temple mount. He would literally be in a chamber in the earth until he went to mark the sheaves (always at the precise sunset, the first Sunday after passover). He remains separated (cannot go out among the people) until after the waive offering is performed.
That's not what Scripture says... He told us He would rise on the third day. Days in Judaism are measured from sundown to sundown. Therefore, the first day was the day of His death (Friday). They had to bury Him quickly because the Sabbath was coming at sundown (Saturday)... the second day. On the third day (Sunday), Christ rose with the dawn.
This really doesn't take all of the mental gyrations. Sheesh... people say Catholics make it complicated...
RB is saying that the Sabbath was the third day but that He rose after this third day on the first day of the week, or the fourth day.
Scripture tells us that He rose on the first day of the week, not the last and that He rose on the third day, not the fourth.
R1, could you indicate for me the Scriptural passage that mandates the sequestering of the high priest before the wave offering? Also, isn't the offering of first fruits associated with Shavuot (Pentecost) and not Pesach?
That is true.
RB is saying that the Sabbath was the third day but that He rose after this third day on the first day of the week, or the fourth day.
I don't believe that RaceBannon is aware of the necessity of marking the sheaves for harvest the night before they are harvested on the first of the week. How can that be done if He (Yeshua) is still in the grave?
Scripture tells us that He rose on the first day of the week, not the last and that He rose on the third day, not the fourth.
Not to my knowledge, it doesn't.
R1, could you indicate for me the Scriptural passage that mandates the sequestering of the high priest before the wave offering?
That will take me a bit... I'll get you something soon.
Also, isn't the offering of first fruits associated with Shavuot (Pentecost) and not Pesach?
Yes and no - and the confusion on this is a common one - The Waving of the Omer is also a first fruits offering, but of the first crop: Barley. The First Fruits offering you refer to (in relation to Shavuot) is the wheat offering.
Counting of the Omer (or Sefirat Ha'omer, or The Day of Waving, or Waving the 'Omer Hebrew: ספירת העומר) is a verbal counting of each of the forty-nine days between the Jewish holidays of Passover and Shavuot. This mitzvah derives from the Torah commandment to count forty-nine days beginning from the day on which the Omer, a sacrifice containing an omer-measure of barley, was offered in the Temple in Jerusalem, up until the day before an offering of wheat was brought to the Temple on Shavuot. The Counting of the Omer begins on the second day of Passover (the 16th of Nisan) for Rabbinic Jews, and after the weekly Shabbat during Passover for Karaite Jews, and ends the day before the holiday of Shavuot, the 'fiftieth day.'
Wikipedia: Counting of the Omer
(See Lev. 23)
**Note regarding "after the weekly Shabbat during Passover for Karaite Jews" :
this difference between Orthodox Judaism and Karaite Judaism is because the Orthodox Jews are still operating under the Hillel II calendar, a takanot decree which changed the Jewish calendar away from the commandments of YHWH. Understandably, however, as this decree was made when the Jews were being evicted from Jerusalem, and into exile. Since they would no longer be able to judge the beginning of the year by the ripening barley in Jerusalem, this mathematically calculated calendar (based on the spring equinox) was probably the best they could do. There is some strong evidence that the change was also to unify the day of worship across far-flung Jewish communities anyway.
The Karaites, who are "sola-scriptura" in the Jewish sense, did not depart from the commandments, and as is provable, neither did YHWH. The Hebrew new year, according to the Bible, is determined by the new moon and ripe barley (for the Omer)... If the barley is not ripe at the new moon an intercalary month (Adar II) is added. Since all the spring Holy Days depend upon calculation from this event, the entire year depends upon the ripening barley, and that is wholly in the hands of YHWH... and because of that, one cannot calculate prophetic happenings with precision without this understanding.
Maybe a refresher course is required in the Exodus to learn the 'time' of the Passover... and the Days of Unleavened... There is NO way except in liberal math class are there 3 days and 3 nights from Friday to before the sun came up very early Sunday morning.
JMT has effectively seconded this view by agreeing with RB's Wednesday crucifixion thesis.
All of this is built on two assumptions:
(1) That Matthew 12:40 (possibly supported by Mark 8:31 and to a lesser extent Matthew 27:63) means that He could not have risen on or during or within three days, but could only have risen after three full chronological days had passed in their entirety.
This thesis, of course, contradicts Matthew 16:21, Matthew 17:23, Matthew 20:19, Matthew 27:64, Mark 9:31, Mark 10:34, Luke 9:22, Luke 18:33, Luke 24:7, Luke 24:21, Luke 24:21, Luke 24:46, Acts 10:40 and 1 Corinthians 15:4. It can also be said to contradict John 2:19, John 2:20, Matthew 26:61, Matthew 27:40, Mark 14:58 and Mark 15:29.
Those 20 passages all assume a use of partial days in counting, hence the received Friday date.
(2) RB and JMT also have the difficulty that John 19:31 indicates that Passover was the day before the resurrection, while RB's calculation requires that the Passover take place two days before the Gospel of John indicates.
Wonderful! I highly recommend it!
Yup.
Matthew 28:1-2 indicates that the earth moved and the stone rolled away from the sepulchre on the first day of the week.
Thank you for the interesting commentary on the wave offering, by the way.
‘You know’ (little liberal lingo there) NOT one post or response have I made said anything about the resurrection taking place on Sunday. That bit of tradition came from the bunch that Christ was speaking to in Matthew 12.
See now I know that each and every ‘soul’ will get to have their accounting day before the Heavenly Father as to what they did or did not do with HIS WORD... John 1:1. AND I am confident that at least my ability to read with understanding in the required ability to count is NOT going to be among my shortcomings.
I stand corrected.
Is it your position that the resurrection occurred on Saturday?
A man and his wife of good reputation were going on a journey. They left their two sons at home. After a certain amout of time had past, the older son said to the younger son, "We should get the house in order for our parents to come home next week." The younger son replied, "They are not coming home until the following week."
The argument escalated and the yelling could be heard by the neighbors. Over the course of the next few days, each brother took their turn criticizing the other brother. After a while the neighbors became frustrated with the two boys and decided that they would have nothing to do with that family anymore.
When the parents come home, will they not punish both boys for ruining their reputation in the neighborhood and alienating their neighbors?
“John 19:31 indicates that Passover was the day before the resurrection.”
I’m glad to see you bring this up. My understanding is that the Passover can fall on any day during the week, on the particular year that Jesus was crucified it fell on the weekly Sabbath. Is that the way you see it?
By the way, many posts back I made mention that those pushing the 72 hour belief were actually Sabbatarians, i.e., those who keep the Jewish Sabbath and accuse the rest of us who keep the first day of the week as pagans.
They were silent as oysters when I first brought this out, now I see, thanks to the clear and logical points you make, they are slowly admitting it. Almost like dealing with the Democrats, hard to get them to ‘fess up.
That is true - But it also indicates that our Redeemer was already risen:
Mat 28:5 And the angel answered and said to the women, Do not fear, for I know that you seek Jesus who was crucified.
Mat 28:6 He is not here, for He has risen, as He said. Come, see the place where the Lord lay.
It is proof that he had risen by Sunday at dawn, not at Sunday dawn.
concentrating on such irrelevent details is sometimes the very thing that separates us. Was Christ born on December 25th....who cares, He was indeed born. Easter has been bounced around forever but the exact date is not really meaningful The event itself, however, is of paramount importance to us and our salvation....I kind of thought that He would rise on the third day....as in Friday, Saturday, and Sunday.....just saying
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