Posted on 04/12/2011 7:55:27 AM PDT by bkaycee
Source?
“I worked in a small, midwestern Catholic organization, and I never thought this would happen to me....”
Protestants, including myself, believe that the Bible is true. Therefore, any belief that contradicts it can not be true. Because the Bible specifically prohibits contacting the dead, we do not pray to saints. Furthermore, when the disciples asked Jesus how to pray, the prayer that Jesus gave them was addressed to “Our Father.” Jesus never felt the need to expand this teaching. This is why Protestant do not pray to saints.
You NEVER read that in any official Catholic doctrine. Stop spreading heresy and outright falsehoods.
Anytime I see this treated as an approved apparition I have doubts about the groups loyalty to the magesterium. It has been condemned by the Bishop who is the only one who can give approval that an apparition is indeed supernatural and is not contradictory to the Catholic faith.
It seems that most every time you guys state a Catholic position, it is only a small portion of the actual position...Why is that???
/8^)
Amen to that...
Sorry, you are right. I was just quoting Joe Wilson....not intending to accuse a FReeper. My mistake, as in hindsight, that is exactly what I did. I apologize.
That's why I chose St. Martha as my patron saint - I too have a tendency to be 'busy with many things', and since she overcame that fault, I appreciate her help with my efforts to overcome it too.
Agreed.
But most on both sides don’t know why.
Thanks for your kind reply.
Though I wouldn’t add “So be it.”
I’d likely say . . . TOO TRUE!
LUB BRO
“Do you take kindly to anyone who might belittle your mother?”
I also wouldn’t take kindly to someone misrepresenting my mother.
It must break Mary’s heart to so how some have turned her into a demi-goddess in a misguided attempt to shift the focus off the real Savior - her son.
The term “mother of God” was used to illustrate that since Mary is the mother of Jesus, and Jesus is both true man and true God, she is the mother of God via the Incarnation of Christ.
It doesn't mean that the Son (the second person in the Trinity) did not pr exist the conception, but that Mary was the true mother Jesus. It is a foundational doctrine that most Western Christians hold, but not often expressed.
Honestly I can’t remember. I believe it was a Pope. I’m looking for the reference.
“Stop spreading heresy and outright falsehoods.”
I believe you’ve already been thumped by the Moderator.
Further, all those things are to be believed with divine and Catholic faith which are contained in the Word of God, written or handed down, and which the Church, either by a solemn judgment, or by her ordinary and universal magisterium, proposes for belief as having been divinely revealed. And since, without faith, it is impossible to please God, and to attain to the fellowship of his children, therefore without faith no one has ever attained justification, nor will any one obtain eternal life unless he shall have persevered in faith unto the end (Dogmatic Decrees of the Vatican Council, On Faith, Chapter III. Found in Philip Schaff, The Creeds of Christendom (New York:Harper, 1877), Volume II, pp. 244-245).Ludwig Ott explains the relationship of Dogmas defined by the Church and faith in these words:
By dogma in the strict sense is understood a truth immediately (formally) revealed by God which has been proposed by the Teaching Authority of the Church to be believed as such...All those things are to be believed by divine and Catholic faith which are contained in the Word of God written or handed down and which are proposed for our belief by the Church either in a solemn definition or in its ordinary and universal authoritative teaching. (Vatian I). Two factors or elements may be distinguished in the concept of dogma: A) An immediate Divine Revelation of the particular Dogma...i.e., the Dogma must be immediately revealed by God either explicitly (explicite) or inclusively (implicite), and therefore be contained in the sources of Revelation (Holy Writ or Tradition) B) The Promulgation of the Dogma by the Teaching Authority of the Church (propositio Ecclesiae). This implies, not merely the promulgation of the Truth, but also the obligation on the part of the Faithful of believing the Truth. This promulgation by the Church may be either in an extraordinary manner through a solemn decision of faith made by the Pope or a General Council (Iudicium solemns) or through the ordinary and general teaching power of the Church (Magisterium ordinarium et universale). The latter may be found easily in the catechisms issued by the Bishops. Dogma in its strict signification is the object of both Divine Faith (Fides Divina) and Catholic Faith (Fides Catholica); it is the object of the Divine Faith...by reason of its Divine Revelation; it is the object of Catholic Faith...on account of its infallible doctrinal definition by the Church. If a baptised person deliberately denies or doubts a dogma properly so-called, he is guilty of the sin of heresy (Codex Iuris Canonici 1325, Par. 2), and automatically becomes subject to the punishment of excommunication (Codex Iuris Canonici 2314, Par. I). As far as the content of justifying faith is concerned, the so-called fiducial faith does not suffice. What is demanded is theological or dogmatic faith (confessional faith) which consists in the firm acceptance of the Divine truths of Revelation, on the authority of God Revealing...According to the testimony of Holy Writ, faith and indeed dogmatic faith, is the indispensable prerequisite for the achieving of eternal salvation (emphasis added) (Ludwig Ott, Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma (Rockford: Tan, 1974), pp. 4-5, 253).This point is further emphasiszed by the Roman Catholic theologian John Hardon in his authoritative and popular catechism:
44. What must a Catholic believe with divine faith?Thus, if we ask, what is the content of the Faith defined by the Roman Catholic Church, which all men must embrace to experience salvation, what would the overall doctrines consist of? In addition to the teachings of the major Councils and the Creed, there are additional doctrines which comprise the faith of Roman Catholicism that relate to Mary, the Papacy, the Church, the Sacraments, Justification, Purgatory and the Canon.
A Catholic must believe with divine faith the whole of revelation, which is contained in the written word of God and in Sacred Tradition.45. Can a person be a Catholic if he believes most, but not all, the teachings of revelation?
A person cannot be a Catholic if he rejects even a single teaching that he knows has been revealed by God.46. What will happen to those who lack ‘the faith necessary for salvation’?
Those will not be saved who lack the necessary faith because of their own sinful neglect or conduct. As Christ declared, ‘He who does not believe will be condemned’ (Mark 16:16).47. Why is divine faith called catholic?
Divine faith is called catholic or universal because a believer must accept everything God has revealed. He may not be selective about what he chooses to believe (John Hardon, The Question and Answer Catholic Catechism (Garden City: Image, 1981).
To deny any of these teachings and to refuse to embrace them with a positive faith is to come under an anathema and to experience loss of saving faith:
http://www.christiantruth.com/articles/savingfaithandrome.html
Mark Miraville’s position is not the Church’s position. He’s a guy from DeKalb, IL.
Bishop Zanic of Bosnia:
“Priests who canonically administer this parish of Medjugorje or those who come as visitors, are not authorised to express their private views contrary to the official position of the Church on the so-called “apparitions” and “messages”, during celebrations of the sacraments, neither during other common acts of piety, nor in the Catholic media.
4 - The Catholic faithful are not only free from any obligation to believe in the authenticity of the “apparitions” but they must also know that church pilgrimages are not allowed, whether official or private, individual or group, or from other parishes, if they presuppose the authenticity of the “apparitions” or if by undertaking them attempt to certify these “apparitions”.”
You NEVER read that in any official Catholic doctrine. Stop spreading heresy and outright falsehoods.
With not too much research, it seems we are learning more about your religion than you guys are...
A quote from the Hankie Intercessor crowd or something special personally derived by applying The Lego Block Method of Interpretation? Many people read things and do not understand them. Often, such people interpret them to mean something like, "blah, blah, blah" in order to remain comfortable with thier own preconceptions.
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