Jesus Christ, the Son of God

I am not a Mormon, just curious about why so many people apparently dislike them.

No one here dislikes "them". We dislike MormonISM, which is a cult that is totally non Christian in theology, and that has in recent years tried to co opt the Christian name in order to make themselves more accepted. I've said it before, and I'll repeat it. Their having the name "Jesus Christ" in their title no more makes them Christian than me sleeping in my garage makes me a Chevy.

This spud’s for you.

The fundamentalist branches of the LDS reject many of the teaching/revelations of the Quorum of 12 and also go for plural marriage which is no longer allowed in the LDS or the Reformed LDS. As far as the LDS and Reformed LDS are concerned the fundamentalists have severed their relation with the church. The LDS is also a pretty hierarchical church where obedience is required. If you’re not a Mormon in good standing you can’t even enter a Temple. Moving you to less than being in good standing is a major punishment. If that doesn’t get your attention then there is excommunication and shunning.

When they changed the rules on plural marriage because of a new revelation the church and it’s members were being actively persecuted by the US government and had basically an extinction order against it. With the change and the disbanding of their army (yes they had an army and it was a substantial one) the order was withdrawn and Utah was allowed into the Union. That’s part of the reason that the injunction against plural marriage is so strong and the punishment is so severe within the church, especially against those who flaunt it. Now, what happens when gay marriage becomes the law of the land and it gets extended to polyamory. I don’t understand the theology that drove the decision for polygamy, but it has been explained to me by a “Jack Mormon” and it’s tied into the same reasons that they baptize dead people into your the church and are adopted into your family. Historically, I understand the practice of polygamy was pretty limited to senior elders and wasn’t widely practiced by the rank and file.

That was held by the Dutch Reformed Churches in Holland and was aimed at their faith and while 8 voting delegates from other countries were invited it’s hardly a Protestant World Wide Synod.

As for where i got the info it’s memory from college classes years ago. In looking up more info I didn’t realize that there were so many different types of predestination which is tied into God’s omniscience among other things. You’re correct Calvinists still believe in predestination. The Presbyterians have rejected double predestination and from what I can see Calvinists haven’t.

Historically, I understand the practice of polygamy was pretty limited to senior elders and wasn’t widely practiced by the rank and file.

Thats the propaganda - heres the truth.

Recent studies suggest that the number of Mormons living in polygamous families between 1850 and 1890, while varying from community to community and year to year, averaged between 20 and 30 percent. In some cases the proportion was higher. The practice was especially extensive with Mormon leaders, both locally and those presiding over the entire church. These calculations would indicate that, during the entire time the principle was practiced, the number of men, women, and children living in polygamous households amounted to tens of thousands. While estimates vary, most scholars agree that between 10 and 20 percent of Mormon marriages before 1890 were polygamous. The extent to which polygamy was practiced in Utah will probably never be known. Plural marriages were not publicly recorded, and there is little chance that any private records which might have been kept will ever be revealed. From information obtainable from all available sources, it appears that there may have been a time when 15 or possibly 20 percent of the Mormon families of Utah were polygamous.

Ref: http://www.mrm.org/topics/rebuttals-rejoinders/mormonism-201/polygamy-fordham

Church historian Larry Logue's study indicated that in the 19th century, about 33% of Mormon households were polygamist. This included nearly all local and top church leaders and prominent Mormons in their communities.

So the practice was not limited, but more widely practiced.

You want to talk about raciest, I was a teenage Protestant in the Jim Crow south. We were taught to respect the white woman.

Them poor Mormon boys had to respect the chastity of all woman.

Ben

The fundamentalist branches of the LDS reject many of the teaching/revelations of the Quorum of 12 and also go for plural marriage which is no longer allowed in the LDS or the Reformed LDS.

SURE it is!

GOD has never changed HIS mind about it; for there is NOTHING that rescinds or changes D&C132:58-66.

Read the following and SEE if 'god' has commanded the Quorum of 12 to change ANYTHING about polygamy.

OFFICIAL DECLARATION—1

To Whom It May Concern:

Press dispatches having been sent for political purposes, from Salt Lake City, which have been widely published, to the effect that the Utah Commission, in their recent report to the Secretary of the Interior, allege that plural marriages are still being solemnized and that forty or more such marriages have been contracted in Utah since last June or during the past year, also that in public discourses the leaders of the Church have taught, encouraged and urged the continuance of the practice of polygamy—

I, therefore, as President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, do hereby, in the most solemn manner, declare that these charges are false. We are not teaching polygamy or plural marriage, nor permitting any person to enter into its practice, and I deny that either forty or any other number of plural marriages have during that period been solemnized in our Temples or in any other place in the Territory.

One case has been reported, in which the parties allege that the marriage was performed in the Endowment House, in Salt Lake City, in the Spring of 1889, but I have not been able to learn who performed the ceremony; whatever was done in this matter was without my knowledge. In consequence of this alleged occurrence the Endowment House was, by my instructions, taken down without delay.

Inasmuch as laws have been enacted by Congress forbidding plural marriages, which laws have been pronounced constitutional by the court of last resort, I hereby declare my intention to submit to those laws, and to use my influence with the members of the Church over which I preside to have them do likewise.

There is nothing in my teachings to the Church or in those of my associates, during the time specified, which can be reasonably construed to inculcate or encourage polygamy; and when any Elder of the Church has used language which appeared to convey any such teaching, he has been promptly reproved. And I now publicly declare that my advice to the Latter-day Saints is to refrain from contracting any marriage forbidden by the law of the land.

WILFORD WOODRUFF
President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

President Lorenzo Snow offered the following:

“I move that, recognizing Wilford Woodruff as the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and the only man on the earth at the present time who holds the keys of the sealing ordinances, we consider him fully authorized by virtue of his position to issue the Manifesto which has been read in our hearing, and which is dated September 24th, 1890, and that as a Church in General Conference assembled, we accept his declaration concerning plural marriages as authoritative and binding.”

The vote to sustain the foregoing motion was unanimous.

Salt Lake City, Utah, October 6, 1890.

EXCERPTS FROM THREE ADDRESSES BY
PRESIDENT WILFORD WOODRUFF
REGARDING THE MANIFESTO

The Lord will never permit me or any other man who stands as President of this Church to lead you astray. It is not in the programme. It is not in the mind of God. If I were to attempt that, the Lord would remove me out of my place, and so He will any other man who attempts to lead the children of men astray from the oracles of God and from their duty. (Sixty-first Semiannual General Conference of the Church, Monday, October 6, 1890, Salt Lake City, Utah. Reported in Deseret Evening News, October 11, 1890, p. 2.)

It matters not who lives or who dies, or who is called to lead this Church, they have got to lead it by the inspiration of Almighty God. If they do not do it that way, they cannot do it at all. . . .

I have had some revelations of late, and very important ones to me, and I will tell you what the Lord has said to me. Let me bring your minds to what is termed the manifesto. . . .

The Lord has told me to ask the Latter-day Saints a question, and He also told me that if they would listen to what I said to them and answer the question put to them, by the Spirit and power of God, they would all answer alike, and they would all believe alike with regard to this matter.

The question is this: Which is the wisest course for the Latter-day Saints to pursue—to continue to attempt to practice plural marriage, with the laws of the nation against it and the opposition of sixty millions of people, and at the cost of the confiscation and loss of all the Temples, and the stopping of all the ordinances therein, both for the living and the dead, and the imprisonment of the First Presidency and Twelve and the heads of families in the Church, and the confiscation of personal property of the people (all of which of themselves would stop the practice); or, after doing and suffering what we have through our adherence to this principle to cease the practice and submit to the law, and through doing so leave the Prophets, Apostles and fathers at home, so that they can instruct the people and attend to the duties of the Church, and also leave the Temples in the hands of the Saints, so that they can attend to the ordinances of the Gospel, both for the living and the dead?

The Lord showed me by vision and revelation exactly what would take place if we did not stop this practice. If we had not stopped it, you would have had no use for . . . any of the men in this temple at Logan; for all ordinances would be stopped throughout the land of Zion. Confusion would reign throughout Israel, and many men would be made prisoners. This trouble would have come upon the whole Church, and we should have been compelled to stop the practice. Now, the question is, whether it should be stopped in this manner, or in the way the Lord has manifested to us, and leave our Prophets and Apostles and fathers free men, and the temples in the hands of the people, so that the dead may be redeemed. A large number has already been delivered from the prison house in the spirit world by this people, and shall the work go on or stop? This is the question I lay before the Latter-day Saints. You have to judge for yourselves. I want you to answer it for yourselves. I shall not answer it; but I say to you that that is exactly the condition we as a people would have been in had we not taken the course we have.

. . . I saw exactly what would come to pass if there was not something done. I have had this spirit upon me for a long time. But I want to say this: I should have let all the temples go out of our hands; I should have gone to prison myself, and let every other man go there, had not the God of heaven commanded me to do what I did do; and when the hour came that I was commanded to do that, it was all clear to me. I went before the Lord, and I wrote what the Lord told me to write. . . .

I leave this with you, for you to contemplate and consider. The Lord is at work with us.

(Cache Stake Conference, Logan, Utah, Sunday, November 1, 1891. Reported in Deseret Weekly, November 14, 1891.)

Now I will tell you what was manifested to me and what the Son of God performed in this thing. . . . All these things would have come to pass, as God Almighty lives, had not that Manifesto been given. Therefore, the Son of God felt disposed to have that thing presented to the Church and to the world for purposes in his own mind. The Lord had decreed the establishment of Zion. He had decreed the finishing of this temple. He had decreed that the salvation of the living and the dead should be given in these valleys of the mountains. And Almighty God decreed that the Devil should not thwart it. If you can understand that, that is a key to it.

(From a discourse at the sixth session of the dedication of the Salt Lake Temple, April 1893. Typescript of Dedicatory Services, Archives, Church Historical Department, Salt Lake City, Utah.)

What kind of 'Leadership' is THIS???

compared to...

Hebrews 11:35-40
35. Others were tortured and refused to be released, so that they might gain a better resurrection.
36. Some faced jeers and flogging, while still others were chained and put in prison.
37. They were stoned ; they were sawed in two; they were put to death by the sword. They went about in sheepskins and goatskins, destitute, persecuted and mistreated--
38. the world was not worthy of them. They wandered in deserts and mountains, and in caves and holes in the ground.

or compared to...

Acts 4:19. But Peter and John replied, "Judge for yourselves whether it is right in God's sight to obey you rather than God.

So much for an 'Everlasting Covenant' that thundered out of Heaven!!!

Well; it DID last about 47 years!

Inasmuch as laws have been enacted by Congress forbidding plural marriage...

I hereby declare my intention to submit to those laws..."

~ Wilford Woodruff, 4th LDS President

When they changed the rules on plural marriage because of a new revelation the church and it’s members were being actively persecuted by the US government and had basically an extinction order against it.

This is a fairy tale told to the ignorant.

How on earth did the Rlds manage to stay in Missouri and FLOURISH if the gummint was out to get 'em?

Historically, I understand the practice of polygamy was pretty limited to senior elders and wasn’t widely practiced by the rank and file.

Well, rank DOES have it's privledges!

And that refers to them Senior Elders IGNORING their own scriptures; AGAIN!

D&C 132 is VERY specific in the AMOUNT and the STATUS of 'sister-wives'.

TEN is the limit and VIRGIN is the status.

58Now, as touching the law of the priesthood, there are many things pertaining thereunto.

59Verily, if a man be called of my Father, as was Aaron, by mine own voice, and by the voice of him that sent me, and I have endowed him with the keys of the power of this priesthood, if he do anything in my name, and according to my law and by my word, he will not commit sin, and I will justify him.

60Let no one, therefore, set on my servant Joseph; for I will justify him; for he shall do the sacrifice which I require at his hands for his transgressions, saith the Lord your God.

61And again, as pertaining to the law of the priesthood—if any man espouse a virgin, and desire to espouse another, and the first give her consent, and if he espouse the second, and they are virgins, and have vowed to no other man, then is he justified; he cannot commit adultery for they are given unto him; for he cannot commit adultery with that that belongeth unto him and to no one else.

62And if he have ten virgins given unto him by this law, he cannot commit adultery, for they belong to him, and they are given unto him; therefore is he justified.

63But if one or either of the ten virgins, after she is espoused, shall be with another man, she has committed adultery, and shall be destroyed; for they are given unto him to multiply and replenish the earth, according to my commandment, and to fulfil the promise which was given by my Father before the foundation of the world, and for their exaltation in the eternal worlds, that they may bear the souls of men; for herein is the work of my Father continued, that he may be glorified.

64And again, verily, verily, I say unto you, if any man have a wife, who holds the keys of this power, and he teaches unto her the law of my priesthood, as pertaining to these things, then shall she believe and administer unto him, or she shall be destroyed, saith the Lord your God; for I will destroy her; for I will magnify my name upon all those who receive and abide in my law.

65Therefore, it shall be lawful in me, if she receive not this law, for him to receive all things whatsoever I, the Lord his God, will give unto him, because she did not believe and administer unto him according to my word; and she then becomes the transgressor; and he is exempt from the law of Sarah, who administered unto Abraham according to the law when I commanded Abraham to take Hagar to wife.

66And now, as pertaining to this law, verily, verily, I say unto you, I will reveal more unto you, hereafter; therefore, let this suffice for the present. Behold, I am Alpha and Omega. Amen.

Didja notice this LIE?

65 Therefore, it shall be lawful in me, if she receive not this law, for him to receive all things whatsoever I, the Lord his God, will give unto him, because she did not believe and administer unto him according to my word; and she then becomes the transgressor; and he is exempt from the law of Sarah, who administered unto Abraham according to the law when I commanded Abraham to take Hagar to wife.

The TRUTH:

Genesis 16

1Now Sarai Abram's wife bare him no children: and she had an handmaid, an Egyptian, whose name was Hagar.

2And Sarai said unto Abram, Behold now, the LORD hath restrained me from bearing: I pray thee, go in unto my maid; it may be that I may obtain children by her. And Abram hearkened to the voice of Sarai.

3And Sarai Abram's wife took Hagar her maid the Egyptian, after Abram had dwelt ten years in the land of Canaan, and gave her to her husband Abram to be his wife.

Sorry your wrong about that. It’s not a fairy tale.

Sigh...

Did ANYONE ever get EXTERMINATED?

Explain the RLDS success in Missouri.

How did THEY end up with all of the church property the FEARFUL ones left behind when they followed the PROPHET, Brigham Young on the ill-advised handcart journeys.
THAT’s where so many MORMONs died: NOT at the hands of anyone else.

Does D&C 132:65 contain a LIE?

The Prophet Joseph’s inspired additions to the BIBLE teach us that before the Son said, “It is finished,” He addressed the Father.

See some differences between GOD's Word and the Joseph Smith's 'translation'

Color coding explanation:

Added stuff... Changed stuff... Rearranged stuff... Removed stuff...

*(UNDERLINED stuff is the DISTRACTING reference on every fifth word that infuses LDS 'scripture' online.)

JOSEPH SMITH—MATTHEW

An extract from the translation of the Bible as revealed to Joseph Smith the Prophet in 1831: Matthew 23: 39 and chapter 24.

Jesus foretells the impending destruction of Jerusalem—He also discourses on the second coming of the Son of Man, and the destruction of the wicked.

1 ^aFor I say unto you, that ye shall not see me henceforth and know that I am he of whom it is written by the prophets, until ye shall say: Blessed is he who ^bcometh in the name of the Lord, in the clouds of heaven, and all the holy angels with him. Then understood his disciples that he should come again on the earth, after that he was glorified and ^ccrowned on the right hand of God.

2 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple; and his disciples came to him, for to ^ahear him, saying: Master, show us concerning the buildings of the temple, as thou hast said—They shall be thrown down, and left unto you desolate.

3 And Jesus said unto them: See ye not all these things, and do ye not understand them? Verily I say unto you, there shall not be left here, upon this temple, one ^astone upon another that shall not be thrown down.

4 And Jesus left them, and went upon the Mount of Olives. And as he sat upon the Mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying: Tell us when shall these things be which thou hast said concerning the destruction of the temple, and the Jews; and what is the ^asign of thy ^bcoming, and of the ^cend of the world, or the destruction of the ^dwicked, which is the end of the world?

5 And Jesus answered, and said unto them: Take heed that no man deceive you;

6 For many shall come in my name, saying—I am ^aChrist—and shall deceive many;

7 Then shall they deliver you up to be ^aafflicted, and shall kill you, and ye shall be ^bhated of all nations, for my name’s sake;

8 And then shall many be ^aoffended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another;

9 And many ^afalse prophets shall arise, and shall deceive many;

10 And because iniquity shall abound, the ^alove of many shall wax cold;

11 But he that remaineth ^asteadfast and is not overcome, the same shall be saved.

12 When you, therefore, shall see the ^aabomination of ^bdesolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, concerning the destruction of ^cJerusalem, then you shall stand in the ^dholy place; whoso readeth let him understand.

13 Then let them who are in Judea flee into the ^amountains;

14 Let him who is on the housetop flee, and not return to take anything out of his house;

15 Neither let him who is in the field return back to take his clothes;

16 And wo unto them that are with ^achild, and unto them that give suck in those days;

17 Therefore, pray ye the Lord that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the Sabbath day;

18 For then, in those days, shall be great ^atribulation on the ^bJews, and upon the inhabitants of ^cJerusalem, such as was not before sent upon Israel, of God, since the beginning of their kingdom until this time; no, nor ever shall be sent again upon Israel.

19 All things which have befallen them are only the beginning of the sorrows which shall come upon them.

20 And except those days should be shortened, there should none of their flesh be ^asaved; but for the elect’s sake, according to the ^bcovenant, those days shall be shortened.

21 Behold, these things I have spoken unto you concerning the Jews; and again, after the tribulation of those days which shall come upon Jerusalem, if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there, believe him not;

22 For in those days there shall also arise false ^aChrists, and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch, that, if possible, they shall deceive the very elect, who are the elect according to the covenant.

23 Behold, I speak these things unto you for the ^aelect’s sake; and you also shall hear of ^bwars, and rumors of wars; see that ye be not troubled, for all I have told you must come to pass; but the end is not yet.

24 Behold, I have told you before;

25 Wherefore, if they shall say unto you: Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: Behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not;

26 For as the light of the morning cometh out of the ^aeast, and shineth even unto the west, and covereth the whole earth, so shall also the coming of the Son of Man be.

27 And now I show unto you a parable. Behold, wheresoever the ^acarcass is, there will the eagles be ^bgathered together; so likewise shall mine elect be gathered from the four quarters of the earth.

28 And they shall hear of wars, and rumors of wars.

29 Behold I speak for mine elect’s sake; for nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom; there shall be ^afamines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.

30 And again, because iniquity shall abound, the love of men shall wax ^acold; but he that shall not be overcome, the same shall be saved.

31 And again, this ^aGospel of the Kingdom shall be preached in all the world, for a witness unto all ^bnations, and then shall the end come, or the destruction of the wicked;

32 And again shall the ^aabomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, be fulfilled.

33 And immediately after the tribulation of those days, the ^asun shall be ^bdarkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the ^cstars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of heaven shall be shaken.

34 Verily, I say unto you, this ^ageneration, in which these things shall be shown forth, shall not pass away until all I have told you shall be fulfilled.

35 Although, the days will come, that heaven and earth shall pass away; yet my ^awords shall not pass away, but all shall be fulfilled.

36 And, as I said before, after the ^atribulation of those days, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken, then shall appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven, and then shall all the tribes of the earth ^bmourn; and they shall see the ^cSon of Man ^dcoming in the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory;

37 And whoso ^atreasureth up my word, shall not be deceived, for the Son of Man shall ^bcome, and he shall send his ^cangels before him with the great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together the ^dremainder of his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

38 Now learn a parable of the ^afig-tree—When its branches are yet tender, and it begins to put forth leaves, you know that summer is nigh at hand;

39 So likewise, mine elect, when they shall see all these things, they shall know that he is near, even at the doors;

40 But of that day, and hour, no one ^aknoweth; no, not the angels of God in heaven, but my Father only.

41 But as it was in the days of ^aNoah, so it shall be also at the coming of the Son of Man;

42 For it shall be with them, as it was in the days which were before the ^aflood; for until the day that Noah entered into the ark they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage;

43 And ^aknew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of Man be.

44 Then shall be fulfilled that which is written, that in the ^alast days, two shall be in the field, the one shall be taken, and the other ^bleft;

45 Two shall be grinding at the mill, the one shall be taken, and the other left;

46 And what I say unto one, I say unto all men; ^awatch, therefore, for you know not at what hour your Lord doth come.

47 But know this, if the good man of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to have been broken up, but would have been ready.

48 Therefore be ye also ^aready, for in such an hour as ye think not, the Son of Man cometh.

49 Who, then, is a ^afaithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?

50 Blessed is that ^aservant whom his lord, when he cometh, shall find so doing; and verily I say unto you, he shall make him ruler over all his goods.

51 But if that evil servant shall say in his heart: My lord ^adelayeth his coming,

52 And shall begin to smite his fellow-servants, and to eat and drink with the drunken,

53 The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,

54 And shall cut him asunder, and shall appoint him his portion with the hypocrites; there shall be weeping and ^agnashing of teeth.

55 And thus cometh the ^aend of the wicked, according to the prophecy of Moses, saying: They shall be cut off from among the people; but the end of the earth is not yet, but by and by.

KJV Matthew 23:38-39 24:1-51

39. For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

1. And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
2. And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
3. And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
4. And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
5. For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
6. And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
7. For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
8. All these are the beginning of sorrows.
9. Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
10. And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
11. And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
12. And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
13. But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
14. And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
15. When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
16. Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17. Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18. Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19. And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20. But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21. For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22. And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
23. Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24. For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25. Behold, I have told you before.
26. Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27. For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
28. For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
29. Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30. And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
32. Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
33. So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
34. Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
35. Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
36. But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
37. But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38. For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
39. And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
40. Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
41. Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
42. Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
43. But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.
44. Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.
45. Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?
46. Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.
47. Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.
48. But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;
49. And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;
50. The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,
51. And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

King James Version of the Holy Bible

Public domain

RDLS isn't that big a church. what is it 300k worldwide as compared with 14 mil + for the regular LDS. Not being a LDS or RDLS member and not being that familiar with their church history lets see what might have allowed them to flourish:

1. Total rejection of polygamy by their leadership

2. Rejection of theocracy and the lack of numbers to enforce it on others.

3. So few in numbers in Missouri after the departure of the majority of LDS to points west that they no longer were seen as a threat to the power structure of the state and local areas.

4. A good number of people in Missouri were appalled by the actions of Governor Boggs and the mob rule and got the rest of them to come to their senses or at least cool it after the majority of the LDS left.

5. Changing views toward non-protestant and non-Catholic religions that has occurred over time.

As for extermination ever heard of Missouri Executive Order 44 Which BTW wasn't formally rescinded until 1976.

Missouri Executive Order 44 reads:

"Headquarters of the Militia,

City of Jefferson, Oct. 27, 1838.

General John B. Clark:

Sir Since the order of this morning to you, directing you to cause four hundred mounted men to be raised within your division, I have received by Amos Reese, Esq., of Ray county, and Wiley C. Williams, Esq., one of my aids, information of the most appalling character, which entirely changes the face of things, and places the Mormons in the attitude of an open and avowed defiance of the laws, and of having made war upon the people of this state. Your orders are, therefore, to hasten your operation with all possible speed. The Mormons must be treated as enemies, and must be exterminated or driven from the state if necessary for the public peace--their outrages are beyond all description. If you can increase your force, you are authorized to do so to any extent you may consider necessary. I have just issued orders to Maj. Gen. Willock, of Marion county, to raise five hundred men, and to march them to the northern part of Daviess, and there unite with Gen. Doniphan, of Clay, who has been ordered with five hundred men to proceed to the same point for the purpose of intercepting the retreat of the Mormons to the north. They have been directed to communicate with you by express, you can also communicate with them if you find it necessary. Instead therefore of proceeding as at first directed to reinstate the citizens of Daviess in their homes, you will proceed immediately to Richmond and then operate against the Mormons. Brig. Gen. Parks of Ray, has been ordered to have four hundred of his brigade in readiness to join you at Richmond. The whole force will be placed under your command.

I am very respectfully,

your ob't serv't,

L. W. Boggs,

Commander-in-Chief."

Illinois while it didn't issue an extermination order like the Governor of Missouri did apologized for their states actions recently.

Then there was the Utah War which followed pretty quickly on their leaving. While it was basically bloodless and settled by negotiation the Mormons were fearful that they were to be exterminated (based upon how the Civil War was fought a few years later, theories of modern war at the time and how Indian Wars were fought along with their prior experience they probably had good reason for their fears). The US government wanted control of the area and to curtail Mormon power, dominance and quench their idea of possibly succeeding from the US control to form their own country.

How long was Utah under nominal military occupation after the Utah War? It was certainly until the time of the Civil War where the control was reduced in exchange for the Mormons not entering the Civil War on the side of the South.

Well, that is the propaganda from lds.

Not being a LDS or RDLS member and not being that familiar with their church history...

Ok, but then...

...lets see what might have allowed them to flourish:

1. Total rejection of polygamy by their leadership

2. Rejection of theocracy and the lack of numbers to enforce it on others.

3. So few in numbers in Missouri after the departure of the majority of LDS to points west that they no longer were seen as a threat to the power structure of the state and local areas.

4. A good number of people in Missouri were appalled by the actions of Governor Boggs and the mob rule and got the rest of them to come to their senses or at least cool it after the majority of the LDS left.

5. Changing views toward non-protestant and non-Catholic religions that has occurred over time.

As for extermination ever heard of Missouri Executive Order 44 Which BTW wasn't formally rescinded until 1976.

Missouri Executive Order 44 reads:

"Headquarters of the Militia,

City of Jefferson, Oct. 27, 1838.

General John B. Clark:

Sir Since the order of this morning to you, directing you to cause four hundred mounted men to be raised within your division, I have received by Amos Reese, Esq., of Ray county, and Wiley C. Williams, Esq., one of my aids, information of the most appalling character, which entirely changes the face of things, and places the Mormons in the attitude of an open and avowed defiance of the laws, and of having made war upon the people of this state. Your orders are, therefore, to hasten your operation with all possible speed. The Mormons must be treated as enemies, and must be exterminated or driven from the state if necessary for the public peace--their outrages are beyond all description. If you can increase your force, you are authorized to do so to any extent you may consider necessary. I have just issued orders to Maj. Gen. Willock, of Marion county, to raise five hundred men, and to march them to the northern part of Daviess, and there unite with Gen. Doniphan, of Clay, who has been ordered with five hundred men to proceed to the same point for the purpose of intercepting the retreat of the Mormons to the north. They have been directed to communicate with you by express, you can also communicate with them if you find it necessary. Instead therefore of proceeding as at first directed to reinstate the citizens of Daviess in their homes, you will proceed immediately to Richmond and then operate against the Mormons. Brig. Gen. Parks of Ray, has been ordered to have four hundred of his brigade in readiness to join you at Richmond. The whole force will be placed under your command.

I am very respectfully,

your ob't serv't,

L. W. Boggs,

Commander-in-Chief."

Illinois while it didn't issue an extermination order like the Governor of Missouri did apologized for their states actions recently.

Then there was the Utah War which followed pretty quickly on their leaving. While it was basically bloodless and settled by negotiation the Mormons were fearful that they were to be exterminated (based upon how the Civil War was fought a few years later, theories of modern war at the time and how Indian Wars were fought along with their prior experience they probably had good reason for their fears). The US government wanted control of the area and to curtail Mormon power, dominance and quench their idea of possibly succeeding from the US control to form their own country.

How long was Utah under nominal military occupation after the Utah War? It was certainly until the time of the Civil War where the control was reduced in exchange for the Mormons not entering the Civil War on the side of the South.

Hum, need to make a quick stop my the Oxford website to see the modification to the definition of "familiar"...

Well, that is the propaganda from lds.

placemarker