Catholic Sex Abuse Hearing Descends Into `Shut Up' Order and Charge of 'Abomination'

Courthouse News Service ^ | March 25, 2011 | Reuben Kramer

[Dr. Eckleburg]

This thread began with a news article. Did you read it?

[count-your-change]

Thank you, says the red faced poster!

[Cronos]

Just to point out to you, dear pnsm, how you have been taken in by the very folks who hate you, who say

The problem with non-denominational churches is that there's nothing to stop the congregation from deciding to become Mormon or Unitarian, etc.
There is something to be said for a diagonal form of church structuring, like the Presbyterians -- organized by a representative group of congregants. This actually strengthens the Christian imperative rather than dilutes it as so many non-denominational churches tend to do."

Pax/Peace!
Cronos

[Cronos]

Your scattergun use of quotation marks is incorrect and thus confusing, making it unclear who said what.

Yes, we need to point out to the Christian Protestants here how your group, the OPC:

1. says that Methodists and Pentecostals are damnable heretics
2. Has beliefs that and preaches that>"John Wesley preached Universal Infant Damnation for unbaptized infants -- which is unsurprising, because Wesley preached the Gospel of Satan"
3. Preaches that "The liberal church teaching of free will has infected the Lutherans, too, in contradiction to what Martin Luther taught from Scripture"
4. Tells its OPC cult members to shun Jews and not celebrate Jewish festivals with them
5. Damns Christian martyrs killed by Moslems
6. The OPC says that The Adventists are a cult that is as dangerous as the Jehovahs Witnesses or the Mormons

Why don't you tell pnsm, Dr. Scarpetta etc. that your group, the OPC hates them and considers them as non-OPC members to be damned to heck as heretics?

Oh, wait, your group members have already done this.

[presently no screen name]

Just to point out to you, dear pnsm, how you have been taken in by the very folks who hate you, who say

Cronos, I'm not like you concerned who likes me or hates me. I know hate is your favorite word. And unlike you, I don't bow to man, so I wouldn't be taken in by any man unlike you.

Now run along and say your prayers to the dead, their spirits are waiting for you.

[Cronos]

And, Dr. E no one takes seriously your repeated statements that your religious cult, the OPC is in any way Christian.

It's been shown again and again that your group is demonstrably non-Christian in statements by your members and your doctrines of beliefs

the Hinduism link to the OPC/PCA where your groups says The Father predestinated the plan and the Son and Spirit agreed to the plan .

Polytheism OPC/PCA style.

God the Father is "conferencing" with the Son and the Spirit

Here is proof that your group is finally shedding off it's pretence to be Triniatrian Christian.

[Cronos]

Why not make it 250%, Cronos?

Because I don't post inflated or false figures like your posts.

kindly explain why 75%+ of the OPC voted for Obama? -- you haven't given any statistics or reasoning beyond pure blather. You've given hearsay at best, obfuscations otherwise

[Cronos]

you won't hear anyone whining about "anti-OPC bigotry."

the same way you don't hear too much whining about the smaller version of the OPC - the WBC. At 20,000 members, your cult with it's conspiracy of silence keeps it's hateful practises secret, but now all Christians know how anti-Christian your cult is

preaching hatred against Pentecostals	from the OPC doctrinal website It will be noted that the Confession sharply contradicts the view popularized today by the neo-Pentecostal movement. In essence this view would have us believe that we can have the same charismatic gifts that we read about in the age of the Apostles - such as prophecy, speaking in tongues, and healing - today. This is a very serious error. In essence it is a result of a failure to grasp the Biblical teaching concerning the history of salvation.
preaching hatred against Lutherans	Dr. Eckleburg disses the LCMS: "The liberal church teaching of free will has infected the Lutherans, too, in contradiction to what Martin Luther taught from Scripture"
preaching hatred against Pentecostals and Methodists:	From the opc doctrinal website: . Are Arminian (Methodists, Pentecostals, Baptist etc) preachers heretics? yes . Is Arminianism (Methodism, Pentecostalism, Baptists) a damnable heresy? Yes. . the teachings of Arminianism are contrary to Scripture, they are manifestly false. They are serious perversions of the gospel of Jesus Christ "we see the inherent Satanism of Free-Will Arminianism" (accusing Methodists, Pentecostals, etc. who disagree with Calvin of preaching a gospel of Satan
preaching hatred against Methodists	"John Wesley preached Universal Infant Damnation for unbaptized infants -- which is unsurprising, because Wesley preached the Gospel of Satan"
preaching hatred against Pentecostals and Catholics together as targets of the OPC/PCA message of hate	Gamecock posted this "This goes to what the Reformers taught; that is the "enthusiasts" or what we call today Pentecostals, are really no different from the Roman Catholics." AnalogReigns: I think this is one reason why it is easy for certain evangelicals, often from the "enthusiast" wing, find it easy to become Roman Catholic.
preaching hatred against Judaism	Acording to the OPC OrthoPresbyterianC: "Christians should not celebrate the Seder or other Jewish festivals. "
preaching hatred and evil against Christians martyred by Moslems in the Middle East	This man followed the wrong teachings of Rome and we know what happens to such people. Heaven is for the elect.
preaching hatred against the Eastern Orthodox	Insinuating that the E. Orthodox are not helping others in Japan
preaching hatred against Adventists	The Adventists are a cult that is as dangerous as the Jehovahs Witnesses or the Mormons
revealing their true beliefs that Christianity means only Calvinism and only their particular brand of Calvinism	Dr. Eckleburg: "That's Christianity. That's Calvinism" Dr. Eckleburg: " The problem with non-denominational churches is that there's nothing to stop the congregation from deciding to become Mormon or Unitarian, etc. There is something to be said for a diagonal form of church structuring, like the Presbyterians -- organized by a representative group of congregants. This actually strengthens the Christian imperative rather than dilutes it as so many non-denominational churches tend to do." "Calvinism is the Gospel and to teach Calvinism is in fact to preach the Gospel." Arthur C. Custance, The Sovereignty of Grace, 1979. "Calvinism is evangelicalism in its purest and only stable expression." B.B. Warfield, Calvin and Augustine, ed. Samuel G. Craig, 1956 "We believe with the great Baptist preacher, Charles Haddon Spurgeon, that Calvinism is just another name for Christianity." John H. Gerstner, Wrongly Dividing the Word of Truth: A Critique of Dispensationalism, 1991.

[presently no screen name]

Probably not, just stopped by to sling some mud.

[Cronos]

Yup, and they tell you Wesleyans that ;John Wesley preached the Gospel of Satan" and their doctrinal website states that Pentecostals, Methodists, etc. are all damnable heretics

Look at that....

[Cronos]

the OPC/PCA dreams of a police state like Geneva, where they attacked fellow Protestants as exemplified in

1. Belot, an Anabaptist was arrested for passing out tracts in Geneva and also accusing Calvin of excessive use of wine. With his books and tracts burned, he was banished from the city and told not to return on pain of hanging (J.L. Adams, The Radical Reformation, pp. 597-598).
2. Jacques Gruent was racked and then executed for calling Calvin a hypocrite
3. A man who publicly protested against the reformer's doctrine of predestination was flogged at all the crossways of the city and then expelled.
4. Calvin's Letter to the Marquis Paet, chamberlain to the King of Navarre, 1561. "Honour, glory, and riches shall be the reward of your pains; but above all, do not fail to rid the country of those scoundrels [Anabaptists and others], who stir up the people to revolt against us. Such monsters should be exterminated, as I have exterminated Michael Servetus the Spaniard."

post things like post things like "we see the inherent Satanism of Free-Will Arminianism" (accusing Methodists, Pentecostals, etc. who disagree with Calvin of preaching a gospel of Satan

And they will also state that "John Wesley preached Universal Infant Damnation for unbaptized infants -- which is unsurprising, because Wesley preached the Gospel of Satan" --> Calvinist'squoting this and attacking those who disagree with them

[Cronos]

You’ve obviously never worked on a newspaper.

Have you ever worked or work for the NYTimes?

Neither I nor WPa do and see the bias on that paper by its columnists...

[Cronos]

Dr. Eck; it will only hasten the complete destruction of a once great denomination, now mired in apostasy and Scriptural error.

Interesting -- and the same thing is happening to the OPC/PCA.

>This is what an ex-Ruling Elder of the OPC says about your group: :

From the Trinity Foundation

• the Report continues the conspiracy of silence that has prevailed in the OPC for three decades. It leaves the erroneous impression that the serious doctrinal problems are outside the denomination, not within it. The Report gives false comfort to those who think the OPC is still a bastion of Biblical orthodoxy. On the contrary, the Report, and the 2006 General Assembly’s commendation of it, both maintain the OPC as a safe haven for those who teach error
• Men within the OPC, including at least one member of the Committee itself, teach heresy regarding the Gospel and many other fundamentals of the faith.
• The OPC long ago ceased to proclaim the one true Gospel to the exclusion of all false gospels
• The Orthodox Presbyterian Church has abandoned the marks of a true church of Jesus Christ
• The Orthodox Presbyterian Church was founded in 1936 by about 135 people who were offended by the lack of discipline in and doctrinal errors of the Presbyterian Church in the USA. .
  But early in its history the OPC fell under the influence of an agnostic view of propositional revelation emanating from Westminster Seminary -- a view that said that there is no identity of content between the \"Christian system\" of theology, meaning Reformed confessions of faith, and the \"divine system\" of theology, known only to God.
  
  This agnosticism has now brought the OPC to the point of falling. Like its predecessor, the PCUSA, the OPC has failed to discipline teachers who teach contrary to Scriptures and the Confession of Faith, and it has endorsed un-Biblical teaching about Scripture and the Gospel.

And the PCA has already started down this path -- next is the OPC. No wonder, these groups are founded by man and not God.

[Cronos]

no worried — mistakes happen. Yours are definitely not intentional.

[Cronos]

Actually, there is an option for this -- there is such a thing as an {Ecumenical Thread} where one can dispute, but civilly. And the condition is that antagonism is not allowed and in the event of whether you are unsure, you should say "this is what I believe and why I think what I believe is correct" -- disputes are to be expected in religious matters.

Yet, very few posters bothered to get on these -- one notable exception among anti-Catholic postes I will point out is RnMomof7, though I dispute quite strongly with her, she has been discussing on ecumenical threads, raising her in my esteem. The others decline to be involved in a non-antagonistic forum.

[esquirette]

kindly explain why 75%+ of the OPC voted for Obama?

---

Would you please cite to a source for this assertion? It is quite surprising to me, if true, in that the local OPC church is quite conservative.

[esquirette]

There is nothing in this list that teaches hate. The assertion of a position which excludes the validity or truth of a contradictory position is not ‘teaching hate.’

Assertion that one postulate is true, and its opposite is false, is the very foundation of logic.

It is not hate to espouse a position which excludes another. Hate is a feeling of enmity directed at another.

[Cronos]

nothing that teachs one to hate?

You mean that the OrthodoPresbyterian C (OPC) saying that Pentecostalism is a damnable heresy is not hate?

How can the OPC say "John Wesley preached Universal Infant Damnation for unbaptized infants -- which is unsurprising, because Wesley preached the Gospel of Satan" and that NOT be considered hate?

You mean ordering OPC members to not celebrate with Jews is not hate?

you mean that saying The Adventists are a cult that is as dangerous as the Jehovahs Witnesses or the Mormons is not hate?

What about this statement by the OPC on Bhatti, the Christian martyr killed by Moslems in Pakistan: This man followed the wrong teachings of Rome and we know what happens to such people. Heaven is for the elect.?

[Cronos]

Hatred is a feeling of enmity directed at another -- like Dr. Eckleburg: " The problem with non-denominational churches is that there's nothing to stop the congregation from deciding to become Mormon or Unitarian, etc.
There is something to be said for a diagonal form of church structuring, like the Presbyterians -- organized by a representative group of congregants. This actually strengthens the Christian imperative rather than dilutes it as so many non-denominational churches tend to do."?

[Cronos]

It would be good to read what an ex-Ruling Elder of the OPC says about this group:

From the Trinity Foundation

• the Report continues the conspiracy of silence that has prevailed in the OPC for three decades. It leaves the erroneous impression that the serious doctrinal problems are outside the denomination, not within it. The Report gives false comfort to those who think the OPC is still a bastion of Biblical orthodoxy. On the contrary, the Report, and the 2006 General Assembly’s commendation of it, both maintain the OPC as a safe haven for those who teach error
• Men within the OPC, including at least one member of the Committee itself, teach heresy regarding the Gospel and many other fundamentals of the faith.
• The OPC long ago ceased to proclaim the one true Gospel to the exclusion of all false gospels
• The Orthodox Presbyterian Church has abandoned the marks of a true church of Jesus Christ
• The Orthodox Presbyterian Church was founded in 1936 by about 135 people who were offended by the lack of discipline in and doctrinal errors of the Presbyterian Church in the USA. .
  But early in its history the OPC fell under the influence of an agnostic view of propositional revelation emanating from Westminster Seminary -- a view that said that there is no identity of content between the \"Christian system\" of theology, meaning Reformed confessions of faith, and the \"divine system\" of theology, known only to God.
  
  This agnosticism has now brought the OPC to the point of falling. Like its predecessor, the PCUSA, the OPC has failed to discipline teachers who teach contrary to Scriptures and the Confession of Faith, and it has endorsed un-Biblical teaching about Scripture and the Gospel.