So how about those magic underwear and becoming the God of a planet?
I want to know about that kind of stuff.
What’s up with that?
P.D.,
How much did Joseph Smtih take from the book of Enoch to write D and C?
How sure are you that they translated those portions correctly?
Well since BYU lost night I doubt any of this stuff is true.
“Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing,
but inwardly they are ravening wolves ... For such are FALSE apostles,
DECEITFUL workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.”
(Matthew 7:15; 2nd Corinthians 11:13).
How can the Mormon church call itself Christian when it is polytheistic? Christianity recognizes only ONE God in the form of the Trinity.
Things that are different should not be called the same.
NO, He did not.
Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
(e-Sword: KJV)
It must have been really hard for Joseph Smith, Brigham Young and the rest of his gang.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_wives_of_Joseph_Smith,_Jr.
Plural wife - maiden name (married name) Marriage Date Age[10] Recognized by Marital status at time of sealing Notes
TC[11] GS[12] FB[13]
Emma Hale (Smith) Jan. 17, 1827 22 yes yes yes n/a The first woman to whom Joseph Smith, Jr. was married and whom he claimed publicly was his only spouse.[14] Continued church activity within the Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.[15] Throughout life and on her deathbed denied Joseph Smith, Jr. had plural wives.[16] Claimed that the very first time she ever became aware of a polygamy revelation being attributed to Joseph Smith was when she read about it in Orson Pratt's booklet The Seer in 1853.[17]
Fanny Alger Early 1833 16 yes no no Single According to George D. Smith, Alger's marriage to Smith was attested to by several people, including Emma Smith, Warren Parish, Oliver Cowdery, and Heber C. Kimball.[18] Compton cites Mosiah Hancock's handwritten report of his father Levi's account of the marriage ceremony of Smith and Alger, and records his father's account of negotiations between Levi and Smith in procuring their respective wives. Compton also notes that nineteenth-century Mormons in Utah, including Benjamin Johnson, Heber C. Kimball and Andrew Jenson, and former Mormons Chauncey Webb and Ann Eliza Webb Young, regarded the Smith-Alger relationship as a marriage.[19] Historian Lawrence Foster asserts a claim that later Mormons may have falsely assumed there was a marriage where there was only a sexual relationship: he views the marriage of Alger to Joseph Smith as "debatable supposition" rather than "established fact".[20]
Lucinda Pendleton Morgan Harris Est. 1838 37 yes yes yes Married Historians Richard Lloyd Anderson and Scott H. Faulring dismiss this claim as being based on "no solid evidence".[21] Compton notes the following evidence: she is the third woman on Andrew Jenson's 1887 list of Joseph Smith's plural wives; Compton writes that "Sarah Pratt reported that while in Nauvoo Lucinda had admitted a long-standing relationship with Smith"; and that there is an "early Nauvoo temple proxy sealing to Smith...." This marriage was polyandrous, as Lucinda lived with her then husband George Washington Harris until about 1853. Compton believes the marriage occurred around 1838, when Smith was living with Lucinda and her husband.[22]
Louisa Beaman Apr. 5, 1841 26 yes yes yes Single (February 7, 1815 - May 16, 1850). Though Mormon history and press indicate Beaman was not baptized until May 11, 1843,[23][24] she had migrated with Mormons to Nauvoo in 1839 or 1840.[25] She has been called the "first plural wife of the Prophet Joseph Smith." [26] After Smith's death, Beaman remarried, becoming the ninth wife of Brigham Young. They had five children together, all of whom predeceased Beaman, who died young at age 35.[27][28] Listed as a Smith plural wife by Joseph F. Smith,[29] who noted 1869 affidavit of Beaman's brother-in-law Joseph B. Noble, stating he officiated at the wedding,[30][31] William Clayton said Smith told him in February 1843 that Beaman was one of his plural wives.[32] This would have been prior to her baptism.
Zina Diantha Huntington (Jacobs) Oct. 27, 1841 20 yes yes yes Married Husband was Henry Bailey Jacobs, who was aware of Zina's plural marriage to Smith. Jacobs wrote, "[W]hatever the Prophet did was right, without making the wisdom of God's authorities bend to the reasoning of any man." (Compton 1997, pp. 81–82) Sister of Presendia Huntington. After Smith's death, married Brigham Young while husband Jacobs was on mission to England.
Presendia Lathrop Huntington (Buell) Dec. 11, 1841 31 yes yes yes Married (7 September 1810 in Watertown, New York - 1 February 1892 in Salt Lake City, Utah) Sister of Zina. After Smith's death, married Heber C. Kimball.
Agnes Moulton Coolbrith Jan. 6, 1842 33 yes yes yes Single Widow of Smith's brother Don Carlos. (1808–1876) She had been married to Don Carlos Smith, Joseph's younger brother. After Don Carlos died in 1841, Coolbrith married Joseph in 1842.[33] Coolbrith was the mother of Ina Coolbrith, who became the first poet laureate of California.
Sylvia Porter Sessions Lyon Feb. 8, 1842 23 yes yes yes Married Daughter of David Sessions and Patty Bartlett Sessions, who married Joseph Smith one month after her daughter's marriage to him. On her deathbed, Sylvia informed her daughter Josephine Lyons that she was Smith's daughter:
"Just prior to my mothers death in 1882 she called me to her bedside … to tell me something which she had kept as an entire secret from me and from all others but which she now desired to communicate to me. She then told me that I was the daughter of the Prophet Joseph Smith." (Newell & Avery 1994, pp. 44, Compton 1997, pp. 183)
Mary Elizabeth Rollins Lightner Jan. 17, 1842 23 yes yes yes Married (9 April 1818 in Lima, New York–17 December 1913 in Minersville, Utah) Claimed that Smith had a private conversation with her in 1831 when she was twelve years old,[34][35]
[At age 12 in 1831], [Smith] told me about his great vision concerning me. He said I was the first woman God commanded him to take as a plural wife. … In 1834 he was commanded to take me for a Wife … [In 1842 I] went forward and was sealed to him. Brigham Young performed the sealing … for time, and all Eternity. I did just as Joseph told me to do[.]
After Smith's death, she remarried, becoming the 24th plural wife of Brigham Young. They married in 1845 and she bore him no children. Mary Elizabeth and her sister Caroline were instrumental in salvaging printed pages of the Book of Commandments when the printing press was destroyed by a mob on 20 July 1833.[36]
Patty Bartlett (Sessions) Mar. 9, 1842 47 yes yes yes Married (4 February 1795 in Bethel, Maine - 14 December 1893 in Bountiful, Utah). Her daughter Sylvia Porter Sessions Lyon, who had married Smith one month before, was present at Session's wedding to Smith.[37]
Marinda Nancy Johnson (Hyde) Apr. 1842 27 (16)[38] yes yes yes Married (28 June 1815 in Pomfret, Vermont - 24 March 1886 in Salt Lake City, Utah). Jon Krakauer wrote in Under the Banner of Heaven,[38]
"In the summer of 1831 the Johnson family took Joseph and Emma Smith into their home as boarders, and soon thereafter the prophet purportedly bedded young Marinda. Unfortunately, the liaison did not go unnoticed, and a gang of indignant Ohioans—including a number of Mormons—resolved to castrate Joseph so that he would be disinclined to commit such acts of depravity in the future."
Elizabeth Davis (Brackenbury Durfee) Bef. Jun. 1842 50 yes yes yes Married (11 March 1791 in Riverhead, New York - 16 December 1876 in White Cloud, Kansas)
According to Anderson and Faulring, this claim is based on Bennett and "an ambiguous statement attributed to Sarah Pratt by the hostile journalist Wyl."[21]
Sally A. Fuller 1842 ? no yes no ?
Sarah Maryetta Kingsley (Howe Cleveland) Bef. Jun. 29, 1842 53 yes yes yes Married (1788 - 20 April 1856 in Plymouth, Illinois)
Anderson and Faulring state that this is "only a guess" based on a claim "without any supporting data".[21]
Delcena Johnson (Sherman) Bef. Jul. 1842 37 yes yes yes Single (19 November 1806 in Westfield, Vermont - 21 October 1854 in Salt Lake City, Utah; widow of Lyman R. Sherman)
Eliza Roxcy Snow Jun. 29, 1842 38 yes yes yes Single Sister of Lorenzo Snow. Organized a petition in Summer 1842, with a thousand female signatures, denying Smith a polygamist.[39] As Secretary of the Ladies' Relief Society published a certificate in October 1842 denouncing polygamy.[40] William Clayton said Smith told him in February 1843 that Snow was one of his plural wives.[41] She was married to Brigham Young from 1844 until his death in 1877.
Sarah Ann Whitney Jul. 27, 1842 17 yes yes yes Single Daughter of Newel and Elizabeth Whitney. Joseph C. Kingsbury said he was "well aware" of this marriage.[42] William Clayton listed her as one of Smith's wives married during the early May 1843 period.[41]
Martha McBride (Knight) Aug. 1842 37 yes yes yes Single Widow of Vinson Knight; later sealed to Heber C. Kimball.
Sarah Bapson 1842 yes ? ?
Ruth D. Vose (Sayers) Feb. 1843 34 yes yes yes Married
Flora Ann Woodworth Spring 1843 16 yes yes yes Single William Clayton listed her as one of Smith's wives married during the early May 1843 period.[41]
Emily Dow Partridge Mar. 4, 1843 19 yes yes yes Single Daughter of Edward Partridge and sister of Eliza. After Smith's death, she married Brigham Young. William Clayton listed her as one of Smith's wives married during the early May 1843 period.[41]
Eliza Maria Partridge Mar.8, 1843 22 yes yes yes Single Daughter of Edward Partridge and sister of Emily. Eliza married after Smith's death, to Amasa M. Lyman, who was already husband to Eliza's older sister, Caroline. William Clayton listed her as one of Smith's wives married during the early May 1843 period.[41]
Almera Woodward Johnson Apr. 1843 30 yes yes yes Single (12 October 1812 in Westfield, Vermont - 4 March 1896 in Parowan, Utah)
Lucy Walker May 1, 1843[43] 17 yes yes yes Single Wrote about her plural marriage to Smith,[35][44]
"In the year 1842 President Joseph Smith sought an interview with me, and said, ‘I have a message for you, I have been commanded of God to take another wife, and you are the woman.' … He asked me if I believed him to be a Prophet of God. … He fully Explained to me the principle of plural or celestial marriage … that it would prove an everlasting blessing to my father's house. … [Joseph encouraged her to pray] 'that the grave would kindly receive me that I might find rest on the bosom of my dear [recently deceased] mother … Why Should I be chosen from among thy daughters, Father I am only a child in years and experience.' And thus I prayed in the agony of my soul. … [The marriage] was not a love matter—at least on my part it was not, but simply the giving up of myself as a sacrifice to establish that grand and glorious principle that God had revealed to the world."
Sarah Lawrence May 1843 17 yes yes yes Single (13 May 1826 in Pickering Township, Ontario, Canada - 1872) Sister of Maria.
Maria Lawrence May 1843 19 yes yes yes Single (b. December 18, 1823, Pickering Township, Ontario - d.? Nauvoo, Illinois) Sister of Sarah. After Smith's death, Lawrence married Brigham Young, becoming his sixteenth plural wife. They divorced in 1845, but remarried the following year.[28]
Helen Mar Kimball May 1843 14 yes yes yes Single Daughter of Heber C. Kimball. At aged 14, Helen Mar Kimball wrote,[35]
"[My father] asked me if I would be sealed to Joseph … [Smith] said to me, ‘If you will take this step, it will ensure your eternal salvation & exaltation and that of your father's household & all of your kindred.[‘] This promise was so great that I willingly gave myself to purchase so glorious a reward. … [After the marriage] I felt quite sore over it … and thought myself an abused child, and that it was pardonable if I did murmur."
William Clayton listed her as one of Smith's wives married during the early May 1843 period.[41]
Hannah Ells 1843 29 yes yes ? Single (4 March 1813 in Newcastle upon Tyne, England - 1844 in Nauvoo, Illinois)
Elvira Annie Cowles (Holmes) Jun. 1, 1843 29 yes yes yes Married (23 November 1813 in Unadilla, New York - 10 March 1871 in Farmington, Utah)
Rhoda Richards Jun. 12, 1843 58 yes yes yes Single (8 August 1784 in Framingham, Massachusetts - 17 January 1879 in Salt Lake City, Utah) 1st cousin of Brigham Young whom she married after Smith's death.
Desdemona Fullmer Jul. 1843 32 yes yes yes Single (6 October 1809 in Huntington, Pennsylvania - 9 February 1886 in Salt Lake City, Utah). William Clayton said Smith told him in February 1843 that Fullmer was one of his plural wives.[41]
Olive Grey Frost Summer 1843 27 yes yes yes Single (24 July 1816 in Bethel, Maine - 6 October 1845 in Nauvoo, Illinois) After Smith's death, Frost would remarry, becoming the eighteenth plural wife of Brigham Young. They married in 1844, and she bore him no children.
Mary Ann Frost (Pratt) Summer 1843 ? no yes ?
Melissa Lott Sep. 20, 1843 19 yes yes yes Single Daughter of early Mormon leader Cornelius P. Lott, who managed Smith's farm in Nauvoo.
Nancy Mariah Winchester 1842 or 1843 14 yes yes yes Single Daughter of Stephen Winchester Sr. of Vershire, Vermont, who was a member of the Danite militia and the Quorum of the Seventy, and his wife Nancy Case of Argyle, N.Y. Anderson and Faulring write that this claim is based on "unsupported information".[21]
Fanny Young (Murray) Nov. 2, 1843 56 yes yes yes Single (8 November 1787 in Hopkinton, Massachusetts - 11 June 1859)
Mary Houston Before 1844 no yes ? ?
Sarah Scott Before 1844 no yes ? ?
Olive Andrews Before 1844 no yes ? ?
Jane Tippets Before 1844 no yes ? ?
Sophia Sanburn Before 1844 no yes ? ?
Phoebe Watrous (Woodworth) Before 1844 ? no yes ? ?
Vienna Jaques Before 1844 ? no yes ? ?
Hiya, Paragon. Hope you are keeping well today.
I read the article posted herein and I also went to the site to which you directed me in your last response to me on a previous thread to chat. Unfortunately, the site requires an e-mail addy before one could chat and since my real name is included in my addy I didn’t sign up. However, I did spend a lot of time reading on the site.
I am simply confounded by the whole Mormon theology.
Please, just let me say to you that it is a severe yet awesome responsibility to carry to another the truth of our only Savior, Jesus Christ, who gave us His Good Word to spread to the ends of earth for the saving of souls precious to Him.
The deception presented by LDS is grievous, Paragon. GOD’s truth must go forth from everyone who calls themselves a Christian. If we don’t give the truth to those seeking Him, we need not trample upon His holy name by claiming that we know Him. To do so would be blasphemous.
Those who refuse the Holy Bible wholly - or by second-rating it to the word of another - place themselves in a position to be susceptible to false teachings because they have determined in their hearts not be grounded in the His Word. In that case, we can see how they are “easily led astray” by false doctrine.
Jude 1:3: “Beloved, while I was making every effort to write you about our common salvation, I felt the necessity to write to you appealing that you contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all handed down to the saints.”
To add to or take away from our Lamb’s words of salvation would be to mock His suffering by saying that His work was not enough. That His precious blood was not good enough. And there is no doubt that it (adding to, taking away) goes against His instruction not to do so. Those guilty of this may as well count themselves amongst those in the crowd cheering His death. Indeed, they curse Him in claiming that another’s word is better than His and show that they believe His death was worthless to them. At the end of the day, what hope have they since the only way to salvation has been shunned in favor of some sort of passive obedience to a doctrine in direct opposition to His in that they surrender their will and soul to another besides Him?
There is no area on the site (that I could find) that defends the many and varied beliefs that the LDS hold that go against the Word of God in the Holy Bible. That’s what I was interested in finding: the defense of the beliefs of LDS. It’s just not there. Something that would say, “Here is where we start to differ from the Holy Bible’s words and this is why...” Please feel free to correct me if I’m wrong, but I don’t read anything here by Mormons on FR or on the Mormon site itself that defends the beliefs of Mormonism.
The pics and writings on the site are beautiful, I have to admit. But they are a distraction from truth. I was also hoping to find some debate on historical issues.
Verbatim from the site: “Joseph lived the doctrine he preached—that strengthening our families should be an important focus of our lives. When his life was in jeopardy, Joseph relied on his faith in Jesus Christ not only to sustain himself, but his wife and children as well.”
A beautiful sentiment indeed. But Joseph Smith had many wives. The LDS does not argue this point as far as I know (?). I did more reading elsewhere and the best answer I could find was that he had around 33 or 34 wives. Even were we to lower the number to 5, the quoted statement would still be misleading (lying). Truth should be put to the statement and it should read, “but his wives and children as well.” Truth, and nothing less, should be blatantly evident on any such site that holds itself forth as being true for the purpose of pointing people to God. The site should be held to the highest standard (truth), otherwise it is a just another pit for the innocent and its leaders will someday answer how they managed to overlook Matthew 18:7.
It can’t be denied that Smith believed God’s Word needed “added to” and required a little revision here and there. I see no need to go further into the “not one jot nor tittle” argument because anyone who’s read the Bible knows it and Jesus made it very simple to understand.
LDS have to willfully, and not ignorantly by any means, reject God’s Word to allow Smith’s to supplant. A dangerous thing at a grave cost.
Know that I am not asking you to defend your beliefs, PD.
Here’s wishing you the best and letting you know I appreciate the time you take to respond. Also, to say that I did “seek the truth” at the Mormon site, but it was not to be found there.
Best Regards Always,
SC