Posted on 03/21/2011 10:34:29 AM PDT by count-your-change
Where was Christ for the three days following his death? It seems a simple enough question and it is. The answer is simple too. One might turn to Matthew 27:59, 60, where it says a rich man, Joseph, took Jesus' body and had it put in Joseph's prepared tomb and then a large stone was rolled in place to close up the cave like tomb.
So why would there be a question? Well, before Jesus died he had been asked to be remembered by a criminal hanging nearby. Said this man:
"Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom." By the request he shows he does expect, he has faith, that despite the present situation, that Jesus would indeed, 'come into his kingdom'.
But it is Jesus' answer that some find hard to understand or explain:
"He replied, "Truly I tell you today you will be with me in paradise". Notice that I left out the comma which does not appear in the Greek. It is the placement of that comma that brings the question of whether Jesus was saying either "today you will be with me" or "today I am saying to you", two very different things. Most translators place the comma before "today" in line their beliefs about Christ's condition during those three days, not according to any necessity occasioned by the Greek grammar. Is such placement, and the meaning it imparts, justified according to what the rest of the Scriptures say? No, not at all. How so?
Jesus said he, "the son of man" was to "be killed and on the third day raised up (resurrected)". (Luke 9:22) and Peter confirms that this is exactly what occurred at Acts 10:40,41 saying Christ 'rose from the dead'.
Earlier Peter had interpreted Psalm 16:10 as fitting the Christ, saying Christ had gone into Hades, or hell as some translations have it, as had David, to await God's resurrection of them. (Acts 2:29-36) David though, would have to wait until that much broader resurrection Paul spoke of at Acts 24:15, the "resurrection of both the righteous and unrighteous".
But what of the criminal and the promise made to him? Did he die and go to heaven, hell, where?
He had not been born again. He had not repented or been baptized or become a disciple and shown his faith by his works as had those Paul spoke of in Hebrews chapter 11. He, like David, would have to wait for that resurrection from the memorial tombs (John 5:28, 29) of the "righteous and unrighteous" sometime in the future.
Only then, when Christ was "in his kingdom", could this criminal expect to be in "paradise". Mean while he was dead, unconscious, (Eccl. 9:4-6), what Christ compared to sleep.(John 11:11)
If you want to do a bit of hunting this subject has been pretty throughly discussed on another earlier thread and is worthy of its own thread but not here as it’s rather far a field from this thread.
Why would Jesus say “Amen, amen, I am saying to you” when it was obvious that he was speaking to someone? and yet he did numerous times.
Why do we have similar expressions? They are turns of expression peculiar to a language and culture, idioms.
Several passages and doctrine upon doctrine.
Eph 4:9-10, speaks to the descension then ascension.
Also in the Gospels, Luke 23:43.
Hades technically had at least 4 compartments in the Greek description of the underworld, also spoken of in the OT Hebrew as Sheol.
Those 4 compartments were Paradise (also referenced as Abraham’s Bosom) or the place dead believers were placed after the first death, prior to the Incarnation, Cross and Resurrection; the Torments or place for OT unbelievers and unbelievers today until the Great White Throne Judgment; Tartarus, the dark prison of fallen angels with bodies chained spoken of in 1Pet and referenced in Gen 6:1; and the Abyss where criminal fallen angels are imprisoned until the mid-Tribulation release of Abaddon and the army of demons invade the earth.
John 8- 57 and 58- PROVES jesus was around before the old testiment
then the jews said unto him, thou art yet 50 years old, and hast thou seen abraham— jesus said verily verily i say unto you -BEFORE ABRAHAM WAS, I AM
THEN THEY TOOK UP STONES TO CAST AT HIM
“Christ told the thief that he would be in paradise TODAY with Christ.”
How do you that (TODAY) since Greek didn’t have any commas in it at the time?
JESUS SAYS IN “JOHN 8 - 49 THRU 58 HE PERSONALLY KNEW ABRAHAM
In eternity, He could have "been" an infinite number of places, doing an infinite number of things.
Not according to what Peter said at 1 Peter 3:18, where he said Christ was put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit.
Paul said at 1 Cor. 15:45 that the last Adam (Christ) became a life-giving spirit.
The parable in Luke 16 says nothing about paradise or heaven.
Remember what happened to Jacob when he went up against an angel. No more running for him!
for god so loved the world, that he gave his only begotton son, that whosoever believeth in him should not parish, but have everlasting life
lets break it down-
1. why did god have to give up his son?
2. why do you have to go through jesus to get to god?
answer those questions and you will prove me right
Who will prove you right? You keep talking to yourself.
There are millions of unrepentant sinners long dead, think of the people in far distant places of thousands of years ago that never had any chance to hear the gospel or to repent or to put faith in Christ.
Might not they be among the “unrighteous” that would be resurrected, or are they simply lost?
I try to keep the reasoning from the Bible not speculations about infinities of the “Great Beyond”.
I think you're mixing apples and kumquats here. Would you direct me to the Scriptures that show the above?
Gen 37:35, 42:38; 1 Sam 2:6
used differently in Num 16:30; Ezek 31:15, 17
Hos 13:14; Ps 49:16
Tartarus: Gen 6, 1 Pet 3 and Jude 6
Abaddon and The Abyss: Job 26:6-8, Psalms 88:11,Prov 15:11, Proverbs 27:20, Job 28:22, Job 31:12, (but Esther 8:6 and Wisdom of Solomon 18:25 might not be grounded references) Rev 9
General knowledge of Greek and their reference to the underworld helps in the understanding.
“...that Jesus died so that I might live.”
Great post.
I am grateful that He owns me.
Ok....
Tartarus was used only of the those demons in an condition of darkness and appears not to be a location but a condition.
Abaddon or avaddohn is simply Hebrew for destruction and was transliterated in the NT.
Gehenna was the “second death” of Revelation, named after the Vally of Hinnom where only those criminals thought so foul that they would not be “remembered” in a memorial tomb.
But unfortunately, translators have been inconsistent and have translated these terms chiefly as the English “hell” which in its original sense, only meant to conceal or hide in the earth.
No end of confusion has been the result.
“General knowledge of Greek and their reference to the underworld helps in the understanding.”
You're quite right!
And what does the Bible say that Jesus did for the 36 hours between death and resurrection, other than be dead? But then He was not dead. How did He resurrect, other than through His own power. But that required a conscious act of will, which implies that His soul was still alive, somewhere. Contemplating Christ's activities for those 36 hours is about as fruitless as contemplating where anyone goes when they die. There's only one sure way to find out. The rest is a waste of earthly time.
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