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Mars Hell -- Culture and Politics - Sex and Culture
Blog and Mablog ^ | March 14, 2011 | Douglas Wilson

Posted on 03/15/2011 8:05:34 PM PDT by hiho hiho

Martin Luther once said that God reveals Himself in the contrary. Love is revealed in a man, contorted with pain on a cross. And an inability to understand how this can work is what creates problems for those who can find someone like Rob Bell compelling.

Justin Taylor has a good summary of some of Kevin DeYoung's work on this, and I commend it to you. But my purpose here is just a little different. I want to point to the present effects of denying the truth about our future in the hereafter. The future effects should be obvious -- if someone denies the reality of Hell, and there really is one, then he is obviously increasing his chances of going there. That should be the obvious formula.

What is less obvious is how those who deny the future reality of Hell are much more likely to create hellish situations in the here and now. Rob Bell believes that hell is what we create when we reject God's love. Amen. But I would want to add the absolutely critical proviso that this love of God (that is so rejected) must be defined as He defines it in the Bible, and not as we would wish it might be defined in our Big Rock Candy Mountain versions of Heaven. In the Bible, love is defined as Christ bearing the brunt of God's wrath against our sin. "Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins" (1 Jn. 4:10). A denial of the wrath of God is therefore a denial of propitation (which is bearing the wrath of God), and this in its turn is a denial of love as biblically defined. This means that to deny the reality of Hell is to deny the love of God which saves us from the wrath of that Hell, and to deny the love of God is the first step in creating our own little microcosm of that Hell, which Rob Bell is engaged in doing. He is the pastor of Mars Hill Bible Church in Grand Rapids, and if he is right about what rejecting the love of God does (and he is), then it would appear that someone is trying to turn that place into Mars Hell.

Too often God's love is defined the way some pop singer would define it when accepting her Grammy, and she is thanking her live-in boy toy for his "unconditional love." Yeah, fine, but that's not what it is.

My father taught me that there is a particular kind of soft teaching that creates hard hearts, and there is a particular kind of hard teaching that creates tender hearts. The unconverted human heart is a slab of concrete, and what is needed there is the jackhammer of grace, and not the feather duster of indulgence. Liberals have a reputation for being soft because feather dusters are soft. But feather dusters leave the hearts hard. Conservatives have a reputation for being hard because jackhammers are hard. But conservatives are tenderhearted. Jackhammers break up the slab, and the big trucks of grace haul the chunks away. Then we can break up the fallow ground beneath the slab, seek the Lord, plant a crop and pray for rain (Hos. 10:12)

Grace for sinners is deliverance from wrath. Indulgence for sinners is the realization that boys will be boys and that we are just one or two doctrinal developments away from Grand Rapids being a great place for theologically informed homosex, not to mention those who are straight but not narrow. Keep your eye on the ball, folks. This is about the lake of fire, but more immediately it is about something that rhymes with fire, as countless rock songs would have it -- desire. Why are we talking about wrath all of a sudden? Because the doctrine of God's wrath gets in the way of certain things that are deeply desired.


TOPICS: Current Events; Moral Issues; Religion & Culture; Religion & Politics
KEYWORDS: hell; marshill; robbell

1 posted on 03/15/2011 8:05:39 PM PDT by hiho hiho
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To: hiho hiho
I am genuinely fascinated how many people seem to know exactly what Rob Bell's position on Hell is as described in his new book, Love Wins, when the book that has raised such a ruckus isn't even released until March 20.

But then perhaps Mr. Wilson has some friend at the publisher who was able to sneak out a pre-publication copy.

2 posted on 03/15/2011 8:13:17 PM PDT by newheart (The trouble ain't too many fools, but that the lightning ain't distributed right. -Mark Twain)
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To: hiho hiho
Liberals have a reputation for being soft because feather dusters are soft. But feather dusters leave the hearts hard. Conservatives have a reputation for being hard because jackhammers are hard. But conservatives are tenderhearted.

An interesting analogy. The implication is that Liberals are actually trying to reach people with the Good News of Jesus Christ, but are ineffective because they are "feather dusters." I question whether there are a majority of liberals that try to carry out the Great Commission.

3 posted on 03/15/2011 8:27:15 PM PDT by mlocher (Who is going to watch the hoops bracket show tonight?)
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To: newheart

Rob Bell addressed it in previous books and sermons, you don’t have to wait for the latest book.


4 posted on 03/15/2011 8:43:33 PM PDT by Spudx7
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To: Spudx7

Care to send me a citation? I’ve read a lot of Rob Bell. And while I would agree he leans a bit to the liberal side, I am not so certain it isn’t a decent balance for those whose greatest ambition is to be on the committee that decides who goes to Hell and who doesn’t.


5 posted on 03/15/2011 8:47:05 PM PDT by newheart (The trouble ain't too many fools, but that the lightning ain't distributed right. -Mark Twain)
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To: mlocher
The pastor and youth pastor at our previous church are perfect examples of left leaning Christians. They both think Rob Bell is an absolute genius and are sure that a winsome and inoffensive lifestyle will win souls to Christ. The problem is that if people don't know they need salvation, they won't ever repent of their sins and be saved from an eternity in hell.

The pastor of our current church, one of those “mean” fundamentalist guys, works tirelessly at the jail and in the community preaching the gospel. He is doctrinally sound, doesn't hold back the truth, and the people love him. Several years ago he led the local gang leader (#1 guy) to Christ. He left the gang and began a new life, it changed the path of his children. None of this would have happened if our pastor had bought into the emerging/emergent church philosophy of Rob Bell, Dan Kimball, Brian McLauren, etc.

6 posted on 03/15/2011 8:55:22 PM PDT by Spudx7
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To: newheart
Wish I had time to search the internet for links and quotes to give you. His “Everything is Spiritual” tour comes to mind. I think even “Velvet Elvis” covers his view on hell. I spent a great deal of time 2 years ago reading up and studying the theology of Rob Bell as our then youth pastor was preaching out of his books rather than the bible. Rob Bell is smart and gifted, but embraces antinomianism to the extent that he distorts the truth of scriptures.
7 posted on 03/15/2011 9:01:59 PM PDT by Spudx7
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To: hiho hiho

On a related note:

http://www.generationcedar.com/main/2011/03/the-great-diconnect-of-christianity-god-loves-me-is-not-the-message.html


8 posted on 03/15/2011 9:10:08 PM PDT by Spudx7
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To: Spudx7
Thanks for your story. It is a great one.

They both think Rob Bell is an absolute genius and are sure that a winsome and inoffensive lifestyle will win souls to Christ.

Matt 28 does suggest that there is some action to be taken -- make disciples, baptize, teach, .....

9 posted on 03/15/2011 9:13:16 PM PDT by mlocher (Who is going to watch the hoops bracket show tonight?)
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To: Spudx7

In Velvet Elvis he says, “Heaven is full of people God loves, whom Jesus died for.” and “Hell is full of forgiven people God loves, whom Jesus died for.”

Yes, Bell shakes things up a bit. But I have always felt his ‘antinomianism’ (literally against the law) was more like Paul’s admonition to the ‘foolish’ Galatians who returned to the law after having been saved through grace. And I am reasonably sure he agrees with Paul who also said we should not sin all the more so grace can abound.

I look forward to reading his book. And I will choose not to assume any position he may take in advance of reading it.


10 posted on 03/15/2011 9:21:02 PM PDT by newheart (The trouble ain't too many fools, but that the lightning ain't distributed right. -Mark Twain)
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To: hiho hiho; newheart

Too bad this is coming from Doug Wilson. He has his own cult of personality and some screwy theology to go with it.


11 posted on 03/15/2011 10:29:19 PM PDT by Pining_4_TX
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To: Spudx7

Fantastic interview with Bell —
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vg-qgmJ7nzA


12 posted on 03/16/2011 6:14:23 AM PDT by hiho hiho
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To: hiho hiho

Wow! It was a great interview, I wish that RB had actually answered more of the questions.


13 posted on 03/16/2011 7:07:51 AM PDT by Spudx7
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To: newheart

We are saved by grace, not through works lest any man should boast. I know the law doesn’t save, but it does reveal the holiness and glory of God. When you dismiss the entire Old Testament as irrelevant, then you are bound to misinterpret the New Testament. Jesus quoted scripture throughout the gospel...he also said that he did not come to abolish the law.

Words, especially those from a pastor, have consequences. If Mr. Bell is teaching false doctrine and leading people to reject the truth for a lie, he is condemning them to an eternity in hell. This is why Jesus said it would be better for a millstone to be around the neck of one who would cause a little one to stumble.

Saying that God’s love will melt all hearts, even after death, so that ALL will end up in heaven eventually is more than shaking things up a bit. It is a lie and one with horrific consequences for those who believe it.

I have taken a break from reading christian books...am focusing on God’s word alone.


14 posted on 03/16/2011 7:22:10 AM PDT by Spudx7
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To: newheart

He has been clear on his position.. it is no secret..he is a universalist heretic


15 posted on 03/16/2011 12:53:50 PM PDT by RnMomof7
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To: RnMomof7
He has been clear on his position.. it is no secret..he is a universalist heretic

Forgive me if I don't show up when you burn him at the stake.

16 posted on 03/16/2011 9:24:04 PM PDT by newheart (The trouble ain't too many fools, but that the lightning ain't distributed right. -Mark Twain)
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To: hiho hiho; RnMomof7
DOUG WILSON: My father taught me that there is a particular kind of soft teaching that creates hard hearts, and there is a particular kind of hard teaching that creates tender hearts. The unconverted human heart is a slab of concrete, and what is needed there is the jackhammer of grace, and not the feather duster of indulgence. Liberals have a reputation for being soft because feather dusters are soft. But feather dusters leave the hearts hard. Conservatives have a reputation for being hard because jackhammers are hard. But conservatives are tenderhearted. Jackhammers break up the slab, and the big trucks of grace haul the chunks away. Then we can break up the fallow ground beneath the slab, seek the Lord, plant a crop and pray for rain (Hos. 10:12)

AMEN!.

The sound doctrine of the reformed faith.

17 posted on 03/17/2011 10:44:47 AM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: newheart
Forgive me if I don't show up when you burn him at the stake.

I do not have too..God will do that if he does not repent

18 posted on 03/17/2011 11:40:30 AM PDT by RnMomof7
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To: RnMomof7
I do not have too..God will do that if he does not repent

I have serious differences with Rob Bell, but I would not presume to know how the God of the universe, who died on a cross for me, you and Rob Bell, will handle him. Perhaps he is saved by Christ's blood, despite doctrine that some will find objectionable. Then again, perhaps we are saved by our doctrine. But I guess that would make Christ's sacrifice unnecessary.

19 posted on 03/18/2011 6:17:54 AM PDT by newheart (The trouble ain't too many fools, but that the lightning ain't distributed right. -Mark Twain)
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