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To: Mr Rogers

Nonsense. The fact stands; the natural man, without the Spirit of God, can do NOTHING to please God. Attempting to muddy the waters is futile, but I do understand the natural inclination to twist Scripture since we were warned about it in 2 Peter 3:16.

“Jesus answered them, “Do not grumble among yourselves. No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.” - John 6:43-44

Arminians follow a long tradition of grumblers who despise the sovereignty of God.

Luke 4:25-29 But in truth, I tell you, there were many widows in Israel in the days of Elijah, when the heavens were shut up three years and six months, and a great famine came over all the land, 26 and Elijah was sent to none of them but only to Zarephath, in the land of Sidon, to a woman who was a widow. And there were many lepers in Israel in the time of the prophet Elisha, and none of them was cleansed, but only Naaman the Syrian.” When they heard these things, all in the synagogue were filled with wrath. And they rose up and drove him out of the town and brought him to the brow of the hill on which their town was built, so that they could throw him down the cliff.”

The natural man hates the sovereignty of God, because at his core, he hates God.


82 posted on 03/13/2011 8:26:24 AM PDT by paulist ("For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain." - Philippians 1:21)
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To: paulist

“The fact stands; the natural man, without the Spirit of God, can do NOTHING to please God.”

True. So, who is saying man reaches God apart from the Holy Spirit? Who is claiming that man, left alone by God, will decide to follow God?

No one. God in his grace reaches out to us. The difference is that Calvinists believe man is incapable of responding to the call - that man is ‘dead’ and cannot interact with God or know who God is unless God first regenerates them.

But this is false, as demonstrated by both Jesus and Paul. Jesus refers to us in Luke 4 as poor, captive, blind, oppressed. In Mark 1, Jesus commands natural man “repent and believe in the gospel.”

In Romans 1, what does Paul say?

“9For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. 20For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse. 21For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him...”

“For although they knew God...” - this speaks of natural men, men of whom Paul goes on to say,

“they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Claiming to be wise, they became fools, 23and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and creeping things. 24Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves, 25because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator”

So yes, man can respond to God’s outreach, or he can reject it. If he accepts, he is saved. If he rejects, God will eventually reject him and turn him over to his folly.

No man comes unless the Father draws, but what did Jesus say? “And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself.” To draw is not to compel to believe - if it were, all men would be saved.

“Arminians follow a long tradition of grumblers who despise the sovereignty of God.”

Actually we honor the sovereignty of God, since we respect his will. We do not presume to tell him that he hates most men, or that he only wants a few to be saved, when God has said otherwise. And we do not presume to impose on God salvation by grace thru election, when God has said it is by faith we accept his grace.

Put down your systematic theology text, and read the word of God.


83 posted on 03/13/2011 8:56:21 AM PDT by Mr Rogers (Poor history is better than good fiction, and anything with lots of horses is better still)
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