Posted on 03/07/2011 11:20:48 AM PST by RnMomof7
We repeat, this is a reformed caucus. If you have personal struggles understanding what the reformed position is on these issues, we suggest Sam Storms’ book Chosen for Life or RC Sproul’s Chosen to Believe. With all due respect, you are disrupting the caucus nature of this thread that RnMomOf7 has clearly set into the heading.
Saul, Why dost thou kick against the pricks? Some call conscience.
I think you have the biblical perspective just right. "So then, it does not depend upon the man who wills or the man who runs, but upon God who has mercy...So then He has mercy on whom He desires, and He hardens whom He desires."
Ask him when you see him. He chose not to answer that in scripture.
Nothing I’ve said has went against reformed teaching.
Jhn 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
Jhn 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all [men] unto me.
Draw in the greek
helkō
1) to draw, drag off
2) metaph., to draw by inward power, lead, impel
Was Jesus wrong here?
Ahh I hear a little of the gospel of John there :)
I’m trying to agree with you. I think Saul’s pricks were Jesus’ calls to him and His calls to us are, I think, what we call our conscience.
Close...because of John 6:44 & 6:65. Actually, Rom. 9 and our friend Paul. But, of course, this is the Gospel everywhere one looks. Grace then, grace now, grace forever by the One King and Glorious Lord of Heaven & Earth.
Opps ...LOL
True. . .but of course, we know what would happen if we changed our mind; 'half way down' after leaving rooftop. . .or what happens if we tried to fly w/o a plane. (Does not include 'those who do not meet 'age of reason' requirements; including those w/'drug induced stupors'/sigh). So there have been choices; mistakes that inform us and so we are better able to discern the dangers and make the choice say. . .for 'sane living'.
W/O gravity; w/o the upside/downside - so to speak - MO's of life; again, what would 'choice' (Freedom) mean and what value would it have?
That said; we should keep in mind that no matter how 'evil' - is evil itself - it still needs a 'good horse' to ride on. And so it is; that Evil is inferior to Good, which always has the choice to give Evil a ride - or not.
Which brings me back to 'first thought' - NO Good. . .NO Evil. . .Without Good in the world; there would not be. . .it's opposition. And where Evil 'is'; there is Good, not far away.
Your post suggests that you don't have the slightest clue what reformed means. Enlighten yourself before you try inform others.
This is not an offer to try to agree, my FRiend. You are politely invited to post elsewhere. Try threads suited to the semi-pelagian view represented in your statement.
Granted my Calvin is rusty, and there were some things I think Calvin got a little wonky on, but I was never taught that Israel was cut out any way but spiritually. In otherwards, the Temple system was abolished and the Church put in it’s place.
None of the promises to the Nation of Israel or to the Jews were ever abolished. They were however no longer God’s spiritual vehicle until restored in the new Kingdom.
Some may, and maybe Calvin himself believed this, but I was never taught that, and I consider myself reformed as anyone.
There are Reformed that believe replacement theology and some that do not.. it is not essential of our faith
I believe the Biblical understanding is ingrafting, not replacement.
Knowing is not causing. God knows what I will do but that’s not the cause of me doing it. I know that the sun will rise tomorrow in the east but that knowledge certainly doesn’t cause the sunrise.
I missed your post. To answer:
As I said, we have ‘free will’, but not the kind free will to choose like the angels had: a one time, one shot deal to either be a permanent, completely perfect good, or a permanent, completely imperfect evil. We cannot choose the state of our nature.
Our nature is set, but no one or outside force is coercing us to make choices in one direction or the other. In that respect we have ‘free will’, or maybe a better term is ‘free choice’. However we are slaves to ourselves and we are our own worst enemy. We cannot make the right choice even if it is a free choice. Yet it’s because of that fact that we can be saved, while the demons cannot.
To get out of that state, we have to be pulled. I’ve had Arminians try to persuade me otherwise, that we have responsibility for a person’s eternal fate. To which I always respond that I wouldn’t want that kind of eternal power in my flawed, imperfect hands. How could I live with myself if I made the wrong choice and that person paid with their soul? That kind of power belongs in God’s hands alone.
You are correct.
“Jhn 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.”
How does God draw men to Jesus: Jn. 6:45 gives you the answer, by teaching men God’s word.
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