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To: thatjoeguy
Thank you for your reply.

Did they die? I believe the answer is yes according to the definition God had in mind when He told them. For three I believe it spread to all mankind if I understand your question correctly.

Very good. Adam and Eve did not die physically that day, but they, and all mankind in them, died spiritually that day. The human race was in an extremely serious problem.

If God is utterly Holy, and cannot allow any sin to enter heaven, then Mankind (at that point - without Christ) cannot enter in.

Therefore, if there were no remedy, they would not go into heaven. Then, the question is, where do those go who do not have the remedy (Christ) in your theology?

The T in Tulip, points directly at the problem and when one is fuzzy about the problem - that mankind (by default) is not dead in, "trespasses and sin" through Adam and their own additions, then one is fuzzy on all the rest.

From your answers, I would say, at this point you do not believe the points in ULIP, but do believe the T. And I would add that the T did not come from Calvin as many suppose but was there in Scripture all along and that the church united in 381 dealt with Pelagius's attempt to weaken the doctrine regarding sin, emphatically.

So now the question for you is, if Mankind died spiritually with Adam, where do those go who do not have the remedy (Christ)?

158 posted on 03/08/2011 6:22:57 AM PST by sr4402
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To: sr4402

Sorry it has taken so long to reply, the last few days this week have been hectic to say the least and yesterday I was burnt out on nearly a 1000 rss feeds to go through while squeezing in reading a book. :)

Although it appears we do agree on the depravity of man I think we might disagree on the extent of it. Total depravity as I’ve understood it means that man is so depraved that he a)doesn’t know he’s depraved for if he did he would know what good is and would then be conscious of a decision to make; either to be good (or at least try to be) or continue to be bad.
And b)Since he doesn’t know he’s depraved then he therefore doesn’t know to ask for help or to be able to change his ways. I just don’t buy that, I don’t know of anyone that doesn’t inherently know good from bad and if they know good from bad then they can know whether they are either, and therefore able once again to either choose to be good or bad.

Now to answer your latest question is simple, “And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.” Rev. 20:15.


180 posted on 03/13/2011 11:06:35 AM PDT by thatjoeguy (Wind is just air, but pushier.)
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