Posted on 02/27/2011 8:35:02 AM PST by Colofornian
America has probably supplied the world with more new religions than any other nation...the country's atmosphere of religious experimentation has produced dozens of movements, from Mormonism to a wide range of nature-based practices grouped under the name Wicca.
...how do we tell when a religious movement ceases to be novel or unusual and becomes a cult?
...Hollywood writer-director Paul Haggis...left the Church of Scientology and has accused it of abusive practices, including demands that members disconnect from their families...
In the early 19th century, the "Burned-over District" of central New York state—so named for the religious passions of those who settled there following the Revolutionary War—gave rise to a wave of new movements, including Mormonism, Seventh-Day Adventism and Spiritualism (or talking to the dead). It was an era, as historian Sydney E. Ahlstrom wrote, when "Farmers became theologians, offbeat village youths became bishops, odd girls became prophets."
SNIP
Many academics and observers of cult phenomena, such as psychologist Philip G. Zimbardo of Stanford, agree on four criteria to define a cult. The first is behavior control...monitoring of where you go and what you do. The second is information control, such as discouraging members from reading criticism of the group. The third is thought control, placing sharp limits on doctrinal questioning. The fourth is emotional control—using humiliation or guilt...I would add two more categories: financial control and extreme leadership.
Financial control translates into levying ruinous dues or fees...
Yet every coercive religious group harbors one telltale trait: untoward secrecy. As opposed to a cult, a religious culture ought to be as simple to enter or exit...the group's finances should be reasonably transparent. Its doctrine need not be conventional—but it should be knowable to outsiders. Absent those qualities, an unorthodox religion can descend into something darker.
(Excerpt) Read more at online.wsj.com ...
SOmetimes it’s like we never learned anything from “Life of Brian”. FOLLOW THE SANDAL!!!
Until the LDS starts suicide bombings and flying airplanes into buildings, I dont really care about them either
Islam seeks to destroy the body. Mormonism will destroy the soul.
1) Environmentalism 2) Islam 3) Scientology 4) Marxism 5) Obamaism
Evil starts with liberalism.
Exactly what you said.
“I am the way, the truth and the life. No man comes to the Father but by me.” John 14:6
All cults deny the way to Heaven is through Jesus Christ.
Is Jesus reduced to being nothing more but a prophet?
Is Jesus’ sacrifice made unimportant?
Is man’s works ADDED to gain salvation?
That is a cult.
The original Sept. 11 massacre didn't take place in 2001, but 1857.
The culprits? Mormons in Southern Utah, who slaughtered (unarmed) over 100 children ages 7 & up, moms & dads.
How many Mormons were brought to justice for it in territorial Utah? (One)
Read up on the Mountain Meadow Massacre...and how the Mormon church covered it up for so long.
I know you mean Mormons, but the same could be said against the secular humanists in government.
I have read it up and yes it was bad. But guess what IT HAPPENED IN 1857!!! MEANWHILE IN 2001 A BUNCH OF ANGRY MUSLIMS HIJACKED A FEW PLANES AND KILLED 3000 AMERICANS!!! TIME TO LIVE IN THE 21ST CENTURY!!!
Kevin, it depends upon the venue of threat: with Islime the threat is greater to the life while on earth; with Mormonism the threat is as bad if not worse to the spirit than even Islime, because Mormonism masquerades as if it is Christianity. Now, if you put no more importance on Jesus Christ than say Buddha, then this will not make sense to you.
This sounds exactly like the group (Cooneyites)
I was raised in but escaped thanks to bible centered friend who broke their chains of LEGALISM off me!
Only the last, financial control, was not one of their big things. Their main come-on was “No tithes! No church buildings (home churches only), NO paid preachers”. They believed in a “faith” ministry.
Quite a few people on the high plains in the 1940s became members because their “being saved” legalism doctrine meant “being poor, humble, without riches, downtroden, walk the Jesus walk”.
They thought, looking at their circumstances, They were already half way to heaven! They just had to EARN the other half!
Again I don’t care. Only God determines who soul was lost not you...
Thanks.
Does it justify what happened at Mountain Meadow? No.
Do Mormons continue to slaughter people as a matter of policy, faith, or church doctrine? No.
Are you suggesting that somewhere around the year 2150 (give or take a decade) that Americans should forget about Sept. 11, 2001 and "move on" to the latest catastrophes? Is that what you're suggesting?
The only cult I come into contact with on a regular basis is the one that attacks the LDS Church on an almost daily basis on Free Republic.
Rewind the clock with me. It's 1856. You & I are in Utah territory. We're talking about a possible war that could break out between the feds & Utah territory. You ask me a question: "C, do -- or would -- Mormons slaughter people as a matter of policy, faith, or church doctrine?" Before I can "no" -- you answer it for me: "No."
IOW, the "answer" to your question was "No" in 1856.
It was likely "No" in 1857. (But with Brigham, who knows 100%?)
It was likely "No" the first week of Sept. 1857.
And it's "no" now.
So what does your Q have to do w/the reality of what happened again?
You're leaving out quite a bit of Mormon history. Look what happened to them in Illinois and Missouri. (iirc)
Well, let's see.
Illinois, 1844: Joseph ordered a couple of hundred Mobocrats to destroy the Nauvoo Expositor. (That'd be like Monson, the Mormon "prophet," ordering a couple of hundred of Mobocrats to destroy Free Republic). Then when Smith, his brother, and two others were arrested for that...a fellow Mormon slipped him two loaded firearms in jail. I tell you what, if I hear two jailbirds have been shot as they fired weapons, my first reaction is NOT going to be to make a martyr of a jailbird going down firing two loaded weapons!
Illinois, last half of 1845ish: Some Mormons were forced out of their homes. Many were "encouraged" to leave. Can you prove that the Southern Utahns who murdered all these children & parents were living in Nauvoo a dozen years before?
Missouri, 1833, 1838:
Mormons still love to play up a history of persecution myths:
(1): See, for example, the first entry at: Setting the record straight on the 'Hawn's' Mill Massacre In this article, it explains how the Mormons love to cite Jacob Haun (real name was spelled Jacob Hawn with a "w"), who was the owner of the Hawn's Mill. But Jacob Hawn was never a Mormon...(In that article, a historian discusses why Jacob and Harriet Hawn were never Mormons. "I like many other historians mainly assumed they were Mormons." But among other proofs, Baugh explained that they arrived earlier to Caldwell County before the Mormons, and no family records report that they were Mormons. So the mill that was attacked wasn't even a Mormon mill, after all. [Rewrite the history books]
(2) From the above-linked article: With 17 Mormons killed and 14 Mormons injured, the historian explained that the massacre on October 30, 1838 was the "singular most tragic event in terms of loss of life and injury enacted by an anti-Mormon element against the Latter-day Saints in our entire church's history." Well, I would hope that historians would present history in a more balanced way. What's NOT mentioned in that article is that 12 days before this attack:
•On October 18, 1838, Joseph Smith, Hyrum Smith, Lyman Wight, D. W. Patten at the head of 40 men made a descent on Gallatin, the county seat of Daviess, and they burned the only store and stole their goods. Previous to the 25th of October a great part of the Mormons residing in Caldwell County had returned home with their dividend of plunder.
* 6 days before this attack: • On October 25, 1838, the Battle of Crooked River: Mormon forces attacked (unknowingly?) the Missouri state militia under the command of Samuel Bogart. This incident became one of the principal points of conflicts in 1838 Missouri. The battle resulted in the death of three militia and the LDS leader, David Patten. One of the militia was taken prisoner by the Mormons. Source: http://www.carm.org/religious-movements/mormonism/are-christians-persecuting-mormons
(3) Beyond that, Mormons tend to overdramatize how long the persecution lasted in Missouri:
* It lasted about 100 days in Jackson Co late spring/early Summer & early fall of '33;
* Another month or so-- maybe 40-45 days in Sept/Oct 1838 -- violence all occurring in Oct.
* Less than 5 months actual real time, all told.
Also, you need to factor in all that was going on there.
To add to the complexity of why people acted as they did, the Lds Church History; Selections from the Encyclopedia of Mormonism includes three reasons (among others):
(a) Sidney Rigdon's June 19, 1838 "Salt Sermon" reinforced local Mormon opposition;
(b) Lds militia officer Sampson Avard initiated a vigilante group known as the Danites
(c) Rigdon's July 4, 1838 "inflammatory" sermon was the independence of the church from mobocracy. Rigdon "warned of a war of extermination between Mormons and their enemies if they were further threatened or harassed." (Leland H. Gentry, Church History, p. 343). Lds writer Max Parkin conceded that Rigdon's June 19 and July 4 messages "further incensed the public against expanding LDS influences." (Church History, p. 348).
Certainly, what we almost NEVER hear from contemporary Mormon posters is that apparently the first group to threaten the other with "extermination" in Missouri wasn't Gov. Boggs. 'Twas Lds leader Sidney Rigdon four months prior to that!
Finally, for your comment to even BEGIN to make sense, you would need to show a linkage that these Missouri Mormons forced out of their homes were living in Southern Utah 19 and 24 years later.
The problem is that the Mormon Church covered up who was guilty, so that's not something you're going to be able to do.
Thes victims killed were not Utah squadders who Utahns were concerned about re: residential competition. They were just passing through with some of the finest horses a person could buy back then. They stole everything they had; they kidnapped their babies & younger kids for about two years.
I would imagine...to this day...that some of the finest bred horses in Utah...especially Utah...hark back to a day when the Mormons committed mass murder & got away with it! Every ONE of those families who inherited this breed of horses from the Fancher party has been part of that cover-up by their sheer silence.
Not to your soul. Both deny the grace of Jesus Christ which is the only means of spiritual salvation. The LDS denial is more subtle than the Islamic denial but nonetheless real and just as damning to those who hold to the teachings.
Without a doubt, radical Islam is more violent than Mormonism today but each has a checked past and each has their own 9-11 massacres.
So, PD, how would you define a cult? Obviously, you have a definition or you couldn't apply it against the Flying Inmans.
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